“I'm afraid I am a bit of a fence setter. All this could be real or none of it could be!”
ConspiracyArchive: Thanks for granting this interview Mr. Beckley, I'm honored you've agreed. I wanted to talk to you about the Hollow Earth Theory. I consider your book Subterranean Worlds Inside Earth the best introduction to the subject, so maybe you can tell us how you became interested in the subject and what made you write the book?
Timothy Beckley: I have always been interested in the paranormal — the offbeat. The house that I grew up in was haunted by the spirit of a young baby. I know, because my mother and I heard the sound of a baby crying and followed little shoe prints in the snow to the back gate before they disappeared. into thin air. There were also poltergeist phenomenon — like lights going on and off and doors opening and closing. Once a plate fell to the floor without breaking, after sliding across the kitchen table.
At age 10, I had my first of three UFO sightings. Two brightly lite discs circling overhead. One positioned itself across the street over an abandoned factory building before disappearing. It vanished as if someone had pulled a light switch.
I used to take books out of the library and bought a copy of Frank Edwards Stranger than Science when I was in the fifth grade I guess it was. I used to listen to talk show host Long John Nebel who was heard in 30 states over WOR in New York. I was to become a regular guest on the show years later. He was around a long time before Art Bell. He had all types of far out guests. He interviewed Ray Palmer and Richard Shaver via beeper phone (I have taped copies of this interview which I sell to Shaver fans).
I started writing when I was 13. I had a small publishing company that issued little pamphlets and a regular newsletter called The Searchlight, which was all about Shaver. You see Ray Palmer had the only newsstand magazine on UFOs. It was called Flying Saucers From Outer Space (later it was shortened to just Flying Saucers). Gray Barker of They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers fame used to do a column for the magazine called Chasing the Flying Saucers. When he stopped doing the column I offered to do a column in its place. RAP would give me a free page of ads in exchange for doing On the Trail of the Flying Saucers which ran pretty much till the magazine went out of business. Of course, Palmer has been deceased a long time now but every once in a while I still speak to his son who is Ray Palmer — but not Jr cause he has a different middle initial!
ConspiracyArchive: So how did this put you in touch with Richard Shaver?
Timothy Beckley: Well of course for many years Shaver was part and parcel of almost everything Palmer did in the field. Shaver and I corresponded. I would get a letter from him every few days. Not very well written and on a typewriter that had not had its ribbon changed in years it seemed. I was 16 years old I think and Shaver would send me a box of his picture rocks like clockwork every week or so. My mother dreaded the arrival of the box as the rocks were right out of Shaver's yard. The box was filled of dirt and worms and god knows what.
Shaver, Palmer and I had a lively debate going for a while over the reality of the subsurface world. I put a lot of this material together into a book that was published by Barker's long since defunct Saucerian Press. The Shaver Mystery and The Inner Earth went through several printings. By the time I was 17 my career as a writer was itched in cement I guess you could say...even though I had just about failed English in high school. Today our companies Inner Light Global Communications have about 85 titles in print by authors like Commander X, Brad Steiger, Tim Swartz, T. Lobsang Rampa. A bootleg edition of The Shaver Mystery is sold on the net by Health Research. Have never seen a cent on it so if you want the full story get my book Subterranean Worlds Inside Earth which has all this original material plus a lot more. It is available from Amazon or from our own website www.conspiracyjournal.com
ConspiracyArchive: Most "UFO researchers" today might consider the Hollow Earth theory a "crack-pot" subject, but since the beginnings of the modern UFO sightings it has been intimately connected with "UFOlogy" — especially early contactees. Why do you think this has been forgotten?
Timothy Beckley: Unlike most folks who consider themselves UFO researchers and paranormal investigators, I have never had a deep set belief pattern. Some UFOs may be interplanetary craft, but the majority have to be placed in some other category. During radio and TV interviews the host will always ask what is MY opinion about UFOs. I always tell him it doesn't matter what my opinion is — as UFOs act independently of my beliefs or anyone else's!
What really got me thinking about this inner earth stuff was back years ago there were three miners trapped in a cave in Pennsylvania. It was all over the newspapers and radio back then. They were not expected to survive after three or four days of not being heard from. They were eventually rescued. In the hospital told about after two days or so they saw an eerie light in the cavern where they were trapped. They followed it and came across a door that lead to beings who gave them food and water so they were able to stay alive.
There are so many legends that tell about miners trapped in caves who have experiences with a race of short beings.
To this day I don't know if Shaver was simply repeating these stories that he could have heard, or if was really in touch with these tero and dero.
Shaver's writings were titillating and well written. Palmer probably jazzed them up as I never found Shaver to be a very good writer. Palmer was a real pro. Some say he was responsible for starting the flying saucer mystery with the Maury Island "hoax". If anything he did keep the mystery alive during its lean years. We need a few more Palmer's in the field today. I'm afraid today's breed of self professed "experts" are a wee bit boring!
I'm afraid I am a bit of a fence setter. All this could be real or none of it could be! But we should investigate such matters. Beats watching TV 18 hours a day.
Actually, I am a bit more predisposed to believe in the Shaver Mystery rather than accept the idea of openings at the North and South Poles. Not totally convinced of this theory yet. Want to see more proof.
And while Shaver and Palmer are long gone since gone from our realm their spirits definitely live on. There is still a great deal of interest in what they wrote, and a whole new generation that wants to be exposed to what they had to offer the world. If I have my way I will continue to be a source for what they had to say!
ConspiracyArchive: You related some good miners stories in your book as well. This is one of the most convincing parts of it in my mind. Someone should go out and interview a bunch of them. Has anyone compiled a book strictly on the tales of miners in the tunnels?
Timothy Beckley: As far as I know there has not been an attempt to compile all the stories that miners have told about strange things happening underground. But in my various writings I do quote from some of the sources that are known to me.
The well known conspiracy author Branton (who once wrote an index to the inner earth under his real name Bruce Walton for Saucerian Press) has quite a bit of this information on his various web sites.
By the way, I just got word that Branton was in a very serious accident. Apparently he was riding his bicycle when a truck plowed in to him. He is, at last word, in intensive care — but I don't have the information as to what hospital he might be in.
We could use a few active researchers to explore the old journals and books for more exploits by miners and cave explorers. There is probably a ton of uncovered material out there just waiting to be discovered. Unfortunately, we don't have someone with the influence like Ray Palmer — or his magazines — to attract attention or "get the word out." I bet there are all kinds of small circulation publications put out by amateur cave explorers that would provide us with lots of new stories.
ConspiracyArchive: In India popular belief has it that tunnel entrances are guarded by elementals. Kirk of Aberfoyle in the 1600's wrote of the cave dwellers with similar occult overtones. What's your take on these theories?
Timothy Beckley: Almost every country has its stories. India is no different. Many, many years ago Dr. Robert Dickhoff used to write about some of these matters. He did the book Homecoming of the Martians which gave very sinister overtones to the UFO mystery. In many legends the entrances to the caves were guarded by the Genies — who somehow later ended up in a bottle that you could rub three times and have your wish come true.
ConspiracyArchive: I know you've managed to take a photograph of one of the Men in Black. This is said to be the only one in existence. Maybe you could tell us how that came about and what if any is the relation of the MIBs to Inner Earth Traditions?
Timothy Beckley: I was with Jim Moseley when we took the photo of this MIB. He was standing in a doorway in Jersey City dressed all in black just like Albert K. Bender had described in Barker's They Knew Too Much book.
This MIB was standing directly across the street from the apartment building where Jack Robinson lived. Jack was a freelance editor on the staff of Jim Moseley's Saucer News.
Jack had collected a lot of Shaver material. In fact in my book Subterranean Worlds Inside Earth he tells the story of a Steve Brodie who lived in the same apartment complex as Jack and his wife Mary (NOT the one where the MIB was sighted standing near). Brodie was a hermit of sorts who had no friends. Jack ran into him in the hallway one day and Steve invited him into his apartment where he proceeded to tell him of an experience out west that involved being in a cave and seeing creatures like what Shaver had claimed existed. Brodie was last seen on a train in Arizona looking like he was in a trance....and as if he were returning to where he had this encounter with the dero.
Jack told the story numerous times on the Long John Nebel show and wrote quite a bit on the Inner Earth for my newsletter The Searchlight...Bender always talked about UFO bases at the South Pole. So there is a definite connection here. I can't say for sure who this character was Jim and I photographed. But the picture is published in my book The UFO Silencers: Mystery of the Men in Black.
ConspiracyArchive: Some of the amazing discoveries of Tesla and John Keely bear a strong similarity to Shaver's descriptions of the Deros "mech-ray" technology. Did you ever talk to Shaver about these inventors?
Timothy Beckley: Unfortunately, in the last days of his life Shaver didn't seem to want to talk about the Dero and the Tero or their Mech Rays Technology — and I was not that knowledgeable about Tesla in those days (remember I was only 16 or 17 years old when I corresponded with Shaver). By that time he was pretty much into his rock phase. I was interested in the rocks but you have to have a bit of patience to work with them. By the way I don't recall if I mentioned it or not, but I purchased the last 50 copies of The Secret World that Palmer and Shaver did together on the rock phenomenon. Its available either directly from our website or you can order it off of Amazon. Toward the end, Shaver had a very bitter attitude toward most people as he felt he has been used to a large extent, in that people only heard what they wanted to hear and believe what they wanted to believe. Shaver believed in a physical world beneath our feet. No astral projections, no ghosts, no demons. Pure and simple Dero and Tero without the frills.
ConspiracyArchive: Of the UFO researchers today, who do think is on the right track? Does anyone carry on the Shaver tradition?
Timothy Beckley: Well I am not sure what the "right track" is — I think of myself as a journalist — a reporter. You have to retain an open mind while at the same time be critical when an account or a story just doesn't add up.
I am not really in touch with other researchers outside of Branton, Commander X and Tim Swartz. Branton was, of course, seriously injured in an accident a while ago and I don't know when he will be making a comeback. His books Omega Files - Underground Nazi UFO Bases and Dulce Wars seem of interest to the public. And Underground Alien Bases by Commander X gets an increasing number of hits on Amazon.com.
Who else is really writing about subject — and not rehashing material? I would like to do an update on the Shaver mystery and the inner earth. A lot of my material was ruined in a flood a couple of years ago. I would like to get some of the better letters and stories from early Shaver and Palmer magazines if anyone has anything to lend, donate or email. First hand or passed down accounts also would be welcome. Anyone reading this can always email me at MRUFO@webtv.net, and maybe we can put together something in the next year or two. Anyone contributing material will receive a free copy and credit.
ConspiracyArchive: That's a great idea! I would love to see some more Shaver stories. Any last thoughts? What's in the future for UFOs?
Timothy Beckley: I wouldn't think the future of UFOs is either bright or bleak....it just is! I know that may sound pretty stupid. But, UFOs do whatever they do without much interaction on our part — unless they want interaction. I am afraid it is pretty much a one way street with them coming and going whenever they want to come and go. At times they pay us little attention and I suspect they could not care too much if we know they are around or not. There are UFO reports all the time, and monster sightings (do not forget to see Mothman Prophecies when it hits the movie houses next year, based on John Keel's book) and tons of weirdness to keep any modern day Charles Fort busy 24/7.
I doubt if the field will ever obtain the level of excitement that it did in the past. But that is maybe just because I am not easily excited — except perhaps by a hot blonde from Talos — these days. It seems those that are getting attracted to these fields retain the same degree of fascination I might have had when I read my first article by Palmer or Shaver and purchased FATE for the first time. I keep at it. I will not rest. Its part of my life.
I hope everyone enjoyed what I had to say and good luck all of you in your work to reveal the truth, whatever that might be.
PERFECTIBILISTS: The 18th Century Bavarian Order of the Illuminati, by Terry Melanson
The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship, by Paul & Phillip Collins
Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, by Abbe Barruel
Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith, by James H. Billington
America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones, by Antony C. Sutton