Zeitgeist Addendum: Toward a Technocratic, Communitarian, Cybernated Society
Peter Joseph is naive, and has been swayed by one after another “teacher.” In the first Zeitgeist - a Hegelian concept coined by Johann Gottfried Herder of the Bavarian Illuminati - he was obviously enamored with ‘Acharya S’ and her occult Theosophical “secret tradition” interpretation of ancient history. In ‘Addendum,’ he has found a few new (solution-oriented) gurus of the same ilk.
The one-time New Age Theosophical Christ-Maitreya, J. Krishnamurti — thrust upon the occult, Utopian socialist underground at the beginning of the 20th century by Theosophy head, Fabian socialist Annie Besant and pederast-Freemason, C.W. Leadbeater — begins and ends the film. For something that purports to espouse “a modern, non-superstitious based understanding” of the world, well, let’s just say that it is hypocritical and deceitful not to even identify the theosophical current throughout both films, or the outright socialism of the latest. Though Peter Joseph hasn’t admitted his Theosophical debt, at 1:35:37 he tips his hand by the obscure mention of “intellectual materialism” - a term used by Blavatsky herself in Lucifer magazine (also, see here for another theosophic source) - and touts the “true divinity” of Man (1:48:25). New Ager aka “economic hitman”-Perkins has experienced the seething energies of Lucifer as well. At 1:43:07 he talks of the bliss of connectedness and our “God spirit,” while an “Illumined” man makes a gesture with his hands of a triangle in front of the sun.
In Zeitgeist: Addendum, Part I is based upon Ellen Brown’s Web of Debt; Part II, is based on New Age, shamanistic practitioner, communist apologist, John Perkins’ Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, whom the Left view – and no wonder - as an acceptable “conspiracy theorist.” At about 00:48:00 in the film (still within Perkins-dedicated Part II) Peter Joseph quotes from Jim Garrison, the same quote to which Perkins had cited on p. 170 of his book. After writing that the IMF’s stated goal (or ruse) was to “save us all from the evil clutches of communism,” Perkins then immediately quotes from communist Mikhail Gorbachev’s buddy Jim Garrison:
Taken cumulatively, the integration of the world as a whole, particularly in terms of economic globalization and the mythic qualities of “free market” capitalism, represents a veritable “empire” in its own right . . . No nation on earth has been able to resist the compelling magnetism of globalization. Few have been able to escape the “structural adjustments” and “conditionalities” of the World Bank , the International Monetary Fund, or the arbitrations of the World Trade Organization, those international financial institutions that, however inadequate, still determine what economic globalization means, what the rules are, and who is rewarded for submission and punished for infractions . Such is the power of globalization that within our lifetime we are likely to see the integration, even if unevenly, of all national economies in the world into a single global, free market system .
Jim Garrison, America As Empire: Global Leader or Rogue Power?, 2004, p. 38.
Garrison is an insider’s insider. Indeed, in the last sentence of the above quote, he had successfully predicted the current situation which seems to be occurring as we speak. Jim Garrison is the President of the technocratic State of the World Forum, organized by the Gorbachev Foundation. This is the realization of Gorbachev’s lofty goal of a global Brain Trust. In its first meeting in 1995,
The former head of the Communist empire had gathered “nearly 500 senior states-people, political leaders, spiritual leaders, scientists, intellectuals, business executives, artists and youth from 50 nations to begin a process of deliberation on the central question of what priorities, values and actions should guide humanity as it moves into the next phase of development,” said Jim Garrison, President of the Gorbachev Foundation.
“Human interdependence,” he continued, “must now become our watchword as we move into the global civilization which lies ahead: interdependence with each other, interdependence with the earth, interdependence with the Spirit which perennially guides the affairs of humankind.”
Garrison is the front-man for the Gorbachev elite enterprise. He’s an adherent of the theosophical school of Manly P. Hall Rosicrucianism. He touts the long held America-as-Atlantis utopian plan of Francis Bacon. More, from America As Empire:
p.57:
Of particular importance to the thinking and politics of the founding fathers was the work of Francis Bacon, who, in some ways, was the spiritual godfather of the American republic. Bacon left a legacy of achievement unrivaled in his generation. He was a writer who some scholars believe authored several of the works attributed to Shakespeare, a scientist who helped shape the basis of modern science with his theories of an empirical scientific method, and, hidden from public view, one of the great secular mystics of his age.
He was friend and counselor to Queen Elizabeth I and King James I, serving as attorney general and lord chancellor. He was also a friend of the explorer Sir Walter Raleigh. Raleigh had tried unsuccessfully to found a colony in what is now North Carolina. Although he failed in doing that, he brought back and introduced to England potatoes and tobacco, at the same time igniting Europe’s imagination with the possibilities of the New World. It was Bacon who penned the first popular expression of these possibilities in a curious little manuscript titled New Atlantis, which he wrote in 1624 but which was published posthumously in 1627.
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p.58:Inspired by Raleigh’s tales of a vast land of untapped resources and scarcely peopled, New Atlantis told the story of a group of sailors who venture forth from Peru and are blown off-course northward. There they find a previously undiscovered island called Bensalem, which is governed by the House of Salomon. The House of Salomon was undeniably wise. In its exploration of the “true nature of things,” it would send out an expedition every twelve years to trade “not for gold, silver, or jewels; nor for silk, nor for spices; nor any other commodity of matter; but only for God’s first creature, which was Light: to have Light of the growth of all parts of the world.” The House of Salomon had what it called “Perspective Houses” where “all multiplications of light” were demonstrated. This focus on light provided the House of Salomon with the capacity for good governance. “Happy are the people of Bensalem,” the governor in the book declares. “There is not under heaven so chaste a nation as this of Bensalem; nor so free from all pollution or foulness. It is a virgin of the world.” The people were happy because within constraints they were free and within limits their needs were met
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p.61:
Bacon invoked the lost civilization of Atlantis to underscore that Paradise was and can be lost; but he reframed that ancient myth and cautionary tale within the possibility of a new Atlantis that could be created in the New World Europeans had just discovered. Paradise could be rebuilt in the “virgin country” of America. Only if the inhabitants of the New World lost their connection with the light, would they, like Atlantis of old, be destroyed.
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p.62:…a beacon of freedom to the rest of the world. Benjamin Franklin summarized this vision when he said that America’s true destiny was not to be about power, it was to be about light.
The United States soon discovered that having such a foundation in the light gave it an extraordinary wisdom in the acquisition of power. Right from the beginning, even before the Revolutionary War in 1776, the Americans demonstrated remarkable agility in their interactions with the British, then the dominant European power. Alone among all the
Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, among numerous others, were all revolutionaries. They were also members of the Masonic order, a secret society dedicated to the teachings of mystical Christianity. They were steeped in the political thinking of Locke, Smith, and Hume; they were schooled in the Enlightenment thinking of Descartes, Voltaire, and Montesquieu; they were immersed in the esoteric teachings of ancient Egypt, Greece, and Rome; and they were devoted to the scientific method and mystical writings of Bacon. As they fought the Revolutionary War and as they created the Constitution of the United States, the founding fathers brought these strands together to achieve a whole new kind of nation, based on a radically new notion of human possibility. As Washington put it, America was to become what freemasonry already was–a temple of virtue. [my emphasis]
The United States was the first nation in history to be consciously created as a place of perfection. The Great Seal of the United States, printed on every dollar bill, summarizes the great promise that the United States was founded to embody. It depicts a pyramid that the ancient Egyptians used as a metaphor for the tip of a beam of light. At the top of the pyramid is the all-seeing eye of Horus, the Egyptian sun god, whose essence is light and who represents the eye of knowledge. Underneath the pyramid are inscribed the words Novus ordo [seclorum], which means “New order for the ages.” In this spirit, the founding fathers intended the United States to be the greatest of nations, destined to be an inspiration to all…
Parts III and IV of Addendum supports this utopian reordering of society that occultists have longed for. Enter the Technocracy movement’s futurist-genius: Jacque Fresco. At this point the film essentially espouses - as a solution to the ills of capitalism, competition and the free market - an unabashed technocratic anarcho-communitarian sociology.
Part III begins (00:54:27) with a quote from Bernard Lietaer about greed and competition. Lietae is an important man. He is a member of the Club of Rome (the establishment’s population reduction conclave that wants to kill off all the useless eaters); was intimately involved with something called GaiaCorp (named after the earth goddess worshipped by the UN theosophical occultists, of course); was “responsible for the design and implementation of the ECU, the convergence mechanism to the Euro, the single European currency”; and the theorist behind the so-called “Terra currency.” That the film chose to quote him is significant; and it is no wonder that Parts III and IV are ripe with buzzterms such as sustainability, carrying capacity, resource-based economy, common heritage, and world unification.
Jacque Fresco’s answer to the ultimate and inevitable collapse of the monetary system, is to offer up his own unique solution to replace it: the Venus Project. He’s an advocate of a cybernated society, and what he terms “sociocyberneering.” Plugging in “cybernated society” into a Google books search, one is confronted by results from the works of Henry Margenau (world government advocate), Paul Goodman (”New Left” anarchist sociologist), and Leo Huberman (socialist agitator). Sociology, as a term, and the practice of the social sciences itself, goes back to Claude-Henri de Saint-Simon (the original technocrat) and his pupil Auguste Comte, inventor of positivism. Saint-Simonians, in the early 1800s, called for a “new Economic Parliament of Europe and a transnational authority”; the political structure had to be replaced by “social authority” and a “technocratic utopia” run by scientists, inventors and engineers. A “totally scientistic system” whose followers proselytized for “social control,” challenged individualism, with the goal of creating an “elite of the new age.” (See James H. Billington, Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith, Basic Books Inc., 1980, pp. 214-18.)
Much like Saint-Simon before him, and Bacon’s New Atlantis, Peter Joseph’s techo-guru, Jacque Fresco believes in the sacerdocy of scientists. The technicians, he says in Addendum (around 1:05:30), are the only ones sufficiently advanced enough, and with the necessary skills to solve the real problems of the world.
Technology as savior.
Man (with a capital “M”) as god.
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Connect the dots:
Barmby communitarian | “Jacque Fresco” Etzioni | Futurist communitarian | “world government” theosophy | anarcho-communitarian | Hegel Marx Saint-Simon Technocracy | Cybernetics Trentowski | Cybernetics “Club of Rome” | Brzezinski cybernetics | “population control” cybernetics
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On the net:
Zeitgeist Addendum - A Critical Review
Zeitgeist 2: Theosophy, Socialism, and The new NWO
Zeitgeist Addendum - “A Push for A New One World Religion”
Tags: Anarchism, Club of Rome, Communitarian, Communitarianism, Comte, Cybernated Society, Cybernetics, Jacque Fresco, Marxism, New Age, New Atlantis, Peter Joseph, Population Control, Rosicrucianism, Saint-Simon, Socialism, Sociology, Sustainable Development, Technocracy, Technocratic, Terry Melanson, Theosophy, Venus Project, Videos, Zeitgeist, Zeitgeist Addendum
PERFECTIBILISTS: The 18th Century Bavarian Order of the Illuminati
The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship
Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism
Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith
America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones
October 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Yes. I started a post here, but it was getting so long I just posted it. Pointed response!
Jay
October 19th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Right, can’t have any solutions because you want the shit to hit the fan so JESUS can come back and save all your brainwashed asses.
Can’t have the New Age become the one world religion, cause there’s only true religion and that’s christianity right!? (Which one of the gazillion sub-divisions is yours? :p)
Zeitgeist is just a word. Paranoid, hello?
Krishnamurti was a mystic - not an occultist, and broke from Theosophy. Funny you forget to mention that huh? Guess you didn’t find the time!
The “New Age” is a belief system - yuk indeed.
Shamanism, mysticism and occultism are practices. Learn the difference, religious nut.
You can actually do experiments and see the results, you know, like science, that other thing you think Satan came up with to conjure up dinosaurs and ridicule the one book you’re allowed to believe totally in.
Just because a used quote is relevant, doesn’t mean you support the people behind the quote.
For instance, you quote a lot of shit here, but where are the bible passages man?!
Alex Jones has quoted nazis, guess that makes him a nazi now too!
“Jacque Fresco believes in the sacerdocy of scientists.”
No Jacque Fresco thinks, you are the idiot who does silly things like “believing”
A christian conspiracy theorist is like an idiot with his hands in front of his eyes waving a flashlight.
Thanks for the laugh though.
October 19th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
“Right, can’t have any solutions”
Not his, theirs and yours, that’s for sure. Try and make me and see what you get. Because that’s what it will come down to if sovereignty - mine, my country’s, and my community - is encroached upon and violated. Re-educate this.
“Zeitgeist is just a word. Paranoid, hello?”
A word, a philosophic concept - coined by an Illuminatus. History is my specialty, and I recount it at every chance I get. Herder and Hegel - look them up.
“Learn the difference, religious nut.”
Sure thing New Age occultist pagan anarchist whackjob. Two can play at the idiot game.
“You can actually do experiments and see the results, you know, like science”
Poppycock! I can take a hit of acid and see Djwhal Khul? Science? Maybe if I take DMT, or site quietly in silence, I’ll converse with loving Space Brothers. Is that my “god spirit” - my “divine self” - being measured on the Electroencephalograph?
“Just because a used quote is relevant”
His master and inspiration. He used the same guy in the first film too. The entire first video is him aping the words and “beliefs” of Theosophists and amateur hacks. He’s a credulous tool.
“No Jacque Fresco thinks, you are the idiot who does silly things like ‘believing’”
Jacque is a wannabe technocrat. A wannabe his entire life. Cybernetic socialism is still socialism and tyranny nonetheless. I don’t care what Jacque thinks, says or does, as long as I don’t have to comply. I would have been content not to have even know that the guy exists. But “Peter Joseph” has had his say, and so has Fresco. This is my domain (literally); so I get to say and write whatever I please.
October 19th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I just wanted to say that I am not the smartest cookie, but the flat out lies in Zeitgeist are amazing to me. How people could watch the Zeitgeist movies and actually believe any of the fabrications are stunning! Here is a link to some information for those who wish to know the truth about Zeitgeist.
http://www.podomatic.com/share/index/1015047?episode=2008-10-14T14_56_40-07_00
I urge anyone who is honestly searching for truth to check this out.
October 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Evidently, Kevin is dumber than anyone could possibly be by accident.
Keep up the great work, Terry.
October 20th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
As a athiest, I find it amazing that the new agers come in with guns blazing calling anyone who criticizes Peter Jospeh a “Christian Nut”. The fact is, saying we need to have all our resources collectively owned and then “it isn’t important who makes the allocation decisions, it only matters how we make those decisions”.
Maybe I am dense, but that is like saying it doesn’t matter who the judge is, it only matters what the constitution says. We all know that judges are bought and paid for to do certain things like (support the IRS, the prison industry, the lawyers groups, the DEA).
I’d love to hear more about what books have inspired Peter Joseph, Alex Jones always talks about “none dare call it a conpsiracy”, “creature from jekyll island” etc. My beliefs on individualism come about mainly through Murray Rothbard and Ayn Rand…Alex seems to agree with those guys on many issues without ever talking about them. Peter Jospeh seems to go 100% against those guys, his intellectual ancestory does seem to be this UN sponsored theosphism, marxist new agism…but maybe I’m wrong. I won’t know unless the guy becomes a little more open to the public.
October 27th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Zeitgeist movies are about having an open mind to new ideas. But within that, they also suggest new actions. The Zeitgeist Movement isn’t socialism. It’s more like a socialization. It actually works to work with others, far better than it ever would to be radically individualistic (like most Americans today). Sad thing is that people are becoming skeptics as well as individualists. It’s important to be cautious, but it’s more important to take action for something that has good potential to improve conditions. The systems we have now are not only primitive and in 3rd-circuit understanding… They’re failing.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I agree with Ghosty. The plutocrats don’t want people to believe that what can destroy them will work and it’s blogs like these that lack the real critical thinking that leads to change. Peter Joseph is on youtube with a couple interviews that I suggest you all check out.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:57 am
@Ghosty and RU Sirius
Sorry, the lack of “real critical thinking” is on the part of “Peter Joseph.” He simply does not know, or refuses to tell his viewers, that these cybernated re-socialization concepts are direct from the headquarters of the Club of Rome and the communitarian technocrats - the elite he professes to be fighting. You two obviously are in denial as well; because my post - the one you are commenting on (without addressing the substance of anything I have said) - proves it.
October 29th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
@Atheist
Simply because I mentioned the Theosophical influences - and their love of Lucifer - they automatically assume that I have to be a Christian because in their warped mind - hey, Lucifer is cool, man!; he is THE symbol of our inner godhood; anyone who has the nerve to make a fuss about such a thing is obviously an obscurantist and dogmatic and a separatist.
October 31st, 2008 at 11:48 am
Terry, I don’t see how this blog proves “discredit” of the Zeitgeist Movement. I like all the good information but could you please explain what you mean to say, in a conclusion just to clarify? It just seems like an octopus hanging on a string.
October 31st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
There’s no Zeitgeist Movement. All I see is an uncompleted website, that has been in the same state for a month. This post (the one you are commenting on) is about the film.
I am not going to interpret my own words at your behest. If you have questions about what I wrote, fine. Have at it. And please be specific.
October 31st, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I don’t see how this evidence contradicts the movie. Will read up on the Club of Rome and communitarian technocrats and get back with you. No hard feelings. I apologize for being rude earlier but I still disagree with where you’re standing.
November 1st, 2008 at 6:29 am
Zeitgeist films are interesting. They cause the usual kneejerk spoutings from one side or the other side. Feelings are hurt, offence screamed. There are parts of use, bits of truth, keys to thought in all the religions, including the new age. However, the new age is the one that you must enter - the one designed through all the others. Zeitgeist is yet another water carrier, as we leave the age of the fish to the age of the water carrier. The designs are the same and provided to you - no thought required. So stop arguing by flashing the cards of ‘facts’ you were handed by your teachers, gurus, controllers. Stop pretending you understand. You cannot stare at one shadow on the wall and think another shadow is all the answers. You have to grow up, stand up and walk out of the cave. Cummon folks, just stop it. I can smell the grass and the rain, will somone please walk with me? I like company…
November 5th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
I’ve watched the Zeitgeist movies probably a dozen times each now. Some parts one day. Some parts another day. I think the whole scope of the movie is lost on most of you people and your affected by it and will continue to be affected by it whether you agree with it or not. Such is the same with every encounter or experience you have in life. The overall underlying point to me is there ARE other ways of doing things. There ARE other ways of thinking. There ARE other solutions to problems. Except all the problems and societal ills we have today are “solved” with laws and guns and more money. Tell me anything different. And tell me how they have been successfully implemented. NEVER are the problems solved by finding the root cause of the problems. Please go to http://www.thezeitgesitmovement.com and click on the 72 page “venus project” overview and read about the first 30 pages for starters. If that doesn’t expand your mind maybe you’ll get lucky and get beamed up to space with Jesus during the rapture. Excluding and generalizing money as the root of our problems is probably the most accurate of any if you really understand the definition of competition.
For the Christians - What has your religion done for the world besides start wars and divide people by teaching them to see others then yourselves as sinners thus judging them when one of your top ten rules is to not judge people? All the while waiting for a magic day that will make everything better? How do you know you even get to go to heaven when Jesus returns? How do you know your not more sinful then those you call sinners? After all by calling them sinners you yourself have sinned.
I’ll tell you what….I’ll move to the venus project while the rest of you struggle and suffer with the over controlled failed society we are currently a part of. There ARE other ways to live and prosper and the zeitgeist movies are just the beginning of opening peoples eyes to the possibilities that living and prospering is possible in a way other then the way we have been conditioned and programmed to think is the only way.
November 12th, 2008 at 3:22 am
I wonder how many people actually object to the Zeitgeist films for any reasons other than a) religious outrage or b) fear of losing the power that they have attained through our warped society…
I can’t claim to have answers, however:
I feel that the majority of people who contribute to pages like this (ie. people like me, and you if you’re reading it) are either:
a) completely dependant on the system of power and politics that thrives on seperatist theologies (ie. us and them, supported by notions nationalism, patriotism, religious zealotism, rich and poor, and so on) and heirachical power structures (why does society have controllers and underlings anyway?). I pity these people, as their entire lives is dictated by a reliance on hoarding, be it material or intellectual “wealth”. You can’t take your car to the next world. Or your patents. Or stock.
b) completely disgusted by this same system. To those people, you are one of us. We don’t have to agree on anything other than the fact that the current system is flawed from a conceptual point; regardless of if you believe anything that any film says. Why do rich people win court cases more often than poor people? Why, in a democratic country, does it take money to succeed in running for office!? Why do we give corporations and other institutions more power and influence than actual human beings!??!
Did Jesus really exist? Does it really matter?! I’d suggest that it doesn’t, not on a day-to-day basis. Many of the kindest, most loving, wise and intelligent people I know are atheists or agnostic.
Do you want to be ruled by Westinghouse, GE, Monsanto and other nasty, nasty corporate interests? If so, pay no attention to anything else I say.
The system is flawed, people. We’ve got to do something. I’d suggest loving, trusting and supporting one another would be a good place to start, not drawing battle lines between us based on terribly insignificant, academic disputes. If we can find COMMON GROUND, where EVERYONE get’s a better deal than they’re getting today, I’d say that’s a step in the right direction.
I like the idea of the Venus Project. I’m willing to give it a go. Screw anyones propaganda. Even mine. Make up your own mind.
November 14th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Come January’s transfer of power, we’ll see how many Bush administration officials and how many congressmen ousted by the election dash over to Wall Street to catch the monies they just pitched over there. Maybe this was the real reason the bailout had to be rushed. The bill had to be signed before the new administration and congress took office. Fresh leadership might have come under pressure to consider the welfare of people outside the millionaire’s club.
It worked by skulduggery, but an autonomous executive class has positioned itself on top of the American masses. The concentrated wealth that this class wields renders inoperable any distinction between public and private sectors. Beyond the reach of democratic institutions and insulated from the discipline of markets, the executive class alternately assumes public office to ratify its wishes then retires to the boardroom to pocket the results in a perpetual cycle of self enrichment.
Conservative: Someone who hates socialism when it benefits poor people but loves socialism when it benefits the wealthy.
And the winners are
J. P. Morgan Chase
Goldman Sachs
Citigroup
November 29th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
A previous poster mentions money as being the root of all evil. I believe the actual quote is from the bible and states that ‘the love of money’ is the root of all evil. Many people may not see much of a distinction While some may see ‘love of money’ as greed I believe it means more. Money is a means to an end, not an end in itself. It’s a device to facilitate, a medium of exchange. Of course, money is also a source of power and as history shows power corrupts. Looking at money that way is surely a root of evil, if not all.
April 21st, 2009 at 4:43 am
I don’t think Jesus is relevant to anything, let alone the saviour of our planet by technology.
We can fix this by growing up, and realising that MONEY IS OBSOLETE.
It’s time for change.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:01 am
I personally feel the bible is a method we all can use (as well as any other book/scroll/manuscript in all history regarding religion since they are all basically the same) to teach or children a good way of behaving. The ten commanments are good (except the one about “hold no other god above me.” kinda pointless.)
those commandments appear in most other religions in one form or another anyway so there really isn’t much reason to discriminate.
I think it would do us all a lot of good to lose money just because it’s slowing all the progress down. Have you ever said to yourself “I should get solar panels for my house and get an electric car! That would save me a lot of time getting gas and it would smell better and wouldn’t drown out my Beethoven CD’s! Wait i can’t. I don’t have the money… ”
Money is indeed a medium for exchange of goods and services, like research and developement of cures for cancer and aids and a plethora of other dangerouse disease. Too bad there never seems to be enough funding for those things to really take off and accomplish anything. Too bad the people of africa need people from america to donate $.70 a day just to live cause there isn’t any work to be found…
these aren’t conspiracy theories. Watch the news. Watch the christian children’s network commercials. It is all fact.
I don’t agree with the robots taking over all my decisions. I like making decisions. I do agree that with the proper security measures in place for each non-netwrk based robot we could vertually eliminate all of the reasons money is needed for an economy to efficiently run today. We have the technology. We CAN make it better. I am getting solar panels installed on my home next month. It will be mostly payed for by the federal and Louisiana governments. no biggie. 6,090 out of my pocket. Totally infeasable if i had any car notes or credit cards because i couldn’t refinance my house or get the downpayment for it. I’m actually pretty lucky. If we could get all our solar panels or wind generators built, installed and provided for free, then we are in a much better position for mass produced… well produce hehe.
Don’t be scared. Think for yourself. If you don’t want to abandon your religion that’s cool. Just ask yourself if we aren’t in Eden then where are we? And if this is Eden, then we are reeeaaally messing it up.
P.S. I am a proud agnostic. I do like to solve problems where I can though. These are just some thoughts so take from them what you want.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Sorry about the poor spelling I get kindof carried away…
June 4th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
its the time to change from new conceptual framework……
June 25th, 2009 at 8:19 am
theres no movement to stop the banskter’s either asshole. there’s no movement to reform the media,. or the monetary system,.. what makes you think that there would be a “Zeitgest” Movement
July 10th, 2009 at 8:32 am
“Jacque is a wannabe technocrat. A wannabe his entire life.”
Maybe if you actually do some research, you will discover that he left the Technocratic Movement because he didn’t agree on some ideas that they supported.
“This is my domain (literally); so I get to say and write whatever I please.”
Yes, and you also get to have people laugh at you for criticizing stuff without making a proper attempt at understanding what you’re trying to criticize.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:49 am
The “Technocratic Movement” does not define and encompass the entirety of the ideology of technocratic thought. It matters not if Fresco left a formal organization; he was, and still is, an adherent of (cybernetic) technocracy.
July 10th, 2009 at 9:46 am
My point was that Fresco is not a “wannabe” Technocrat, he actively left them because of his own disagreements. Yes, his ideas are similar to what Technocracy advocates, but they are not the same. Also, could you explain to me what “cybernetic technocracy” means? I am not well versed in their movement. Thanks.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Just combine the meanings of both words and you get, basically, the Venus Project - a cybernated technocratic utopia. Whether he chooses to call it that (even deny it), explicitly, it is what it is.
July 13th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Firstly, Mr Fresco doesn’t use the word “utopia”, because it means a society that is static and unchanging. What he realizes (and I hope everyone else does) is that society is always changing, and can never reach a “final” end stage.
What he advocates is direct democracy, where every citizen decides on issues, instead of our current representative democracy, where power is concentrated in the hands of a few. It is possible to bribe or corrupt a small group but it is impossible to corrupt the entire world.
The part on computers making decisions is referring to administrative or logistical issues, like resource production, transportation etc. He does not mean that the computer has the final say in every decision.
This is what I understand of the Venus Project, so forgive me for any errors I may have.
July 13th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Utopia: “impractical, idealistic scheme for social and political reform.”
After having flirted - by his own admission (Future by Design) - with Fascism, Communism, Socialism, Mankind United, Technocracy, and Eastern (esoteric) teachings, he now has settled upon direct democracy? How wonderful.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:22 am
Flirting is far from the right word to use.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Am I missing the point?
I would like to refer to this part of above article: ‘works of Henry Margenau (world government advocate)’
The part in brackets is linked to google books search results. Among those results I haven’t found proof that Henry Margenau is world government advocate. That phrase can be found in results books, but in other context:
‘Those who know the scientific facts concerning atomic energy seem convinced that
only a form of world government can save life on this planet.’
So, since I’m not a native English speaker, maybe I’m missing the point? Can someone, or the writer, explain this?
August 1st, 2009 at 12:31 pm
“After having flirted - by his own admission (Future by Design) - with Fascism, Communism, Socialism, Mankind United, Technocracy, and Eastern (esoteric) teachings, he now has settled upon direct democracy? How wonderful.”
Sure, going to talks about them to find out what they advocate is “flirting” with them. I hope you realize that reading up or listening to people talk about other social systems doesn’t actually mean anything. You might as well brand every single political scientist or every single student for that matter as Fascists, Communists, Socialists etc.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
heaps of insults being hurled
lots of good points being made
any conclusions drawn are premature
game on
August 5th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
“open to anything, attached to nothing: always thriving” - Pants Armstrong
August 5th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
“stop following, and start leading. when people start following you, tell them to stop and to start leading. tell them to tell their followers the same thing.” - St. Pantsis of Assisi
August 5th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
The fact that we are an emergent species predisposes that we will always be emerging as a society.
The fact that we ALL now agree that the earth is flat, renders all static text obsolete. This includes the bible, The Tao Te Ching, etc.
Learn to find your own connection. Be quiet, be still, leave spaces for it to come through. Stop. Slow down. Pay attention to your breaths. Slow the thoughts, just take a break. Chill. Relax. Your troubles don’t stand a chance.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
And for CHRIST’S sake, lead by the clarity of your example.
Talking is about as useful as shouting (which plenty of you are already doing.
August 7th, 2009 at 12:41 am
The bitterness, defensiveness and vitriol of the New Agey true-believer’s comments is enough to make me very wary of this group.
As a secular humanist, I fail to see why it matters if Jesus existed or not. I THINK it is the height of hypocrisy for the ZM robotonz to criticize xians for believing in fantasy while they themselves choose to “believe” gods and goddesses without caring if they ever existed. What’s the difference between believing your beliefs will save you in the “rapture” and the prophesized firey apocalypse or believing that you are the “highly evolved New White Indian” destined to save “Mother Earth” from prophesized environmental apocalypse? Zeitgeist fanatics and Evangelical Christian fanatics merely represent two sides of the same coin. They are both mindless members of dangerous cults. Both mindlessly follow narcissistic leaders who only want to crack their minds and souls open and fill them with their own ideas and beliefs.
There are definite shades of German mysticism, Theosophy, Anthrosophy in this movement and the denial mechanisms strongly resemble those of the Church of Scientology.
I think the IRS needs to take a good look at this group. Those of us who haven’t become true believers need to make sure their fund raising activities are closely monitored.
From looking at their discussion board, it’s pretty evident that they are a cult or will soon become one. The members are disturbingly polarized and there is no intelligent debate and discussion being conducted there. Those who have taken a leadership role are manipulative, deceptive and clearly do not welcome tough questions or outright dissent. Their sole purpose appears to be fundraising, recruitment of new members and attacking non-believers. (war and wealth). It looks like the perfect trap for that sucker that is re-born every minute. They prey on the hopelessness and confusion of those with above average I.Q. and progressive political inclinations. It hooks them in with its outer onion shell of benign catch phrases about unity and peace and equality, but it hides it’s inner core of fascism. Using Carl Sagan as an icon is outrageous. There’s very little respect for scientific method and legitimate scientific inquiry, doubt, healthy skepticism among the ZM true believers running that board. The directions to critics by “Dr Jones” are disturbing as is the two-hour orientation video. It’s a common cult tactic to disarm and mind-numb your targets with endless presentations of ideology. It’s the first step towards thought reform in vulnerable recruits.
From what I’ve seen it is also racially segregated — VERY VERY WHITE, privileged, college educated and not interested in including anyone outside that demographic except as tokens.
I don’t see any folks of color falling for this hippy utopian new age bullshit, but it’s rampant here among those with blond dreadlocks who have a lot of leisure time for endless “drum trances.” The basic ideology sounds more like the rantings of the many of the “Rainbow Family” homeless around here who want people to give them cigarettes and money so they don’t have to get a job – a fate worse than death for someone as enlightened and evolved as they are. The movement is also very popular among white male libertarians who simply refuse to have any restrictions put on their “freedoms” from a position of social and economic power. There is also a strong pro-Eugenics base in this crowd. If they don’t watch themselves their rantings to from population control to kill all the useless breeders/eaters.
When I see the speed in which people become polarized and utterly committed to this movement and the degree to which they are willing to relinquish their individuality and critical thinking capacities, it reminds me of that old documentary “the Wave.”
Like all utopian social movements, ZM should be viewed not with the “open mind” the cult leader requires, but with a mind sharpened by critical thinking skilled and armed with authentic.
I will never give up my individuality!
I will never give up my right to radically challenge and question someone who has all the answers for you!
S.A.V.A.G.E.S.Unite!
Secular atheists voting against gurus enslaving society
August 8th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Dear John Doyle:
You are pointing out two-sides of the same coin, but it’s more like a dice, and you are just one of the six sides of THAT.
Atheists and skeptics just represent the individuals who REFUSE to buy somebody else’s story. But for those of us who have our own, genuine experience to base our beliefs and knowings upon, we simply view you as over compensating with your decision to label yourself something so ordinary as an atheist.
I would consider myself to be ALL sides of said dice.
There is no “TRUTH”, just perception, and we can share ideas based on those perceptions, but like anything, match it up with YOUR EXPERIENCE, and don’t settle for anybodies else’s perception… you are unique, so conclude uniquely, not by joining YET another “society” of group think like S.A.V.A.G.E.S.
“stop following, and start leading. when people start following you, tell them to stop and to start leading. tell them to tell their followers the same thing.” - St. Pantsis of Assisi
August 9th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
“You can’t talk somebody out of their first hand knowledge.” - Mr. Pants
“Within you at this moment is a pipeline to infinite wisdom, power, and love. A part of your mind is always aware of your passion, purpose, and identity. If you do not believe this wisdom exists or if you do not seek to access it, you will not enjoy its benefits. If you consciously open to it and cultivate your connection with it, you will find all the help you need from a mighty unseen hand.” - Alan H Cohen
Atheists, skeptics, S.A.V.A.G.E.S. is a premature conclusion, that you enjoy the mediocrity of the 5 senses, and REFUSE to pay enough attention to tap into the higher resource of Source (or whatever you call it)
just because you don’t buy somebody’s story, doesn’t mean you have to settle for powerlessness
think outside of EVERY box there is, ESPECIALLY that of the ATHIEST
pants
August 20th, 2009 at 1:05 am
The End (for now)
“Open to anything and attached to nothing” - Immaculation Inpantsipation
August 20th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Johnney McJohn-
You say “there is no truth, only perception. This is highly illogical. If the sentence, “There is no truth” is true, then the sentence itself cannot be true,hence, there is truth…. it’s a self-contradiction.
In a logical universe, the basis of our mathematics, and by extension, science, is the idea that there is absolute Truth, and that facts can be determined by empirical data.
As for me, I DO believe in God, based not on blind faith, but based on empirical evidence that I have seen in my own life. Spirituality, unlike religion, is based on an inner relationship to God, and not on a superficial external belief based on fuzzy logic. God is the highest form of intelligent life in our universe.
I looked at the Zeitgeist film, and was disturbed by the authoritarian ideas implicit in such a system. Firstly, the idea that there are “limited” resources which would be allocated to a certain number of people. Who gets to decide, then, whether I will get enough of these “resources”?
Since they believe that only a limited number of people can sustainably live on this planet, what happens to the other ones? (sent to be “eliminated”?)What if I want to have more than 2 kids ?(forced abortion, like in China?)
Since they are obviously against traditional forms of religion, what happens with the people who refuse to comply? And since, as they say, everything will be owned collectively, what happens when I decide that my purse, car or silk blouse should belong to me and not the “community”? (After all, I paid for it). Will I be sent off to be “re-educated”? Sounds like communism to me.
Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth and the Light.” You can either believe him, or not, but you can’t erroneously claim that truth doesn’t exist. But for those who seek truth, they will find it.
August 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Tabitha,
you lack the ability to understand what it is i am saying, so i am not offended.
Science is far from absolute, and the root assupmtions of 200 BC are FAR from those of today, which are constantly being thrown on the trash heap to make way for newer “truer” conclusions and root assumptions.
but i do like how you question the ideals of the new Zeitgeist film, but here is the SOULution you’ve all been waiting for, already know, but are too scared to shift:
Does heaven exist? Of course it does, we live on planet heaven. With all of it’s natural ABUNDANT resources and breathtaking scenery, we live in what could be heaven. The problem is that we live in fear. We are controlled by fear, so if you want to live in heaven, stop living in fear.
August 23rd, 2009 at 1:44 am
If I may that the entirety of this article is completely bunked.
First off, anyone even knowing the differences between Socialism and a Resource Based Economy could figure out the very differences between the two in just under a 2 hour bit of internet researching.
“A Resource-Based Economy is a system in which all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude. All resources become the common heritage of all of the inhabitants, not just a select few. The premise upon which this system is based is that the Earth is abundant with plentiful resources; our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counterproductive to our survival.
Modern society has access to highly advanced technology and can make available food, clothing, housing and medical care; update our educational system; and develop a limitless supply of renewable, non-contaminating energy. By supplying an efficiently designed economy, everyone can enjoy a very high standard of living with all of the amenities of a high technological society.
A resource-based economy would utilize existing resources from the land and sea, physical equipment, industrial plants, etc. to enhance the lives of the total population. In an economy based on resources rather than money, we could easily produce all of the necessities of life and provide a high standard of living for all.”
http://www.thevenusproject.com/a-new-social-design/resource-based-economy
This is what Jacque Fresco states… lets see what a Socialistic Society is shall we?
“It is the aim of Socialism to transfer the means of production from private ownership to the ownership of organized society, to the State. The socialistic State owns all material factors of production and thus directs it. This transfer need not be carried out with due observance of the formalities elaborated for property transfers according to the law set up in the historical epoch which is based on private property in the means of production. Still less important in such a process of transfer is the traditional terminology of Law. Ownership is power of disposal, and when this power of disposal is divorced from its traditional name and handed over to a legal institution which bears a new name, the old terminology is essentially unimportant in the matter. Not the word but the thing must be considered. Limitation of the rights of owners as well as formal transference is a means of socialization. If the State takes the power of disposal from the owner piecemeal, by extending its influence over production; if its power to determine what direction production shall take and what kind of production there shall be, is increased, then the owner is left at last with nothing except the empty name of ownership, and property has passed into the hands of the State.”
Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis Chapter 2 Socialism - The State and Economic Activity p. 1
As you can see two entirely different things.
Also J. Krishnamurti dissolved himself from the Theosophical Society long ago…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk-8hS_TytI&feature=PlayList&p=58A1818787D6CFB6&index=1&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMxXdLUHdv4&feature=PlayList&p=58A1818787D6CFB6&index=2&playnext=3&playnext_from=PL
He was connected to theosophical society yes… but after he disbanded himself from it at the latest gathering it was like if the Pope said that Christianity is a fake at his largest gathering speech ever.
“For something that purports to espouse “a modern, non-superstitious based understanding” of the world”
This portion I really chuckled at. Are you implying that somehow demons, angels, ghosts, warlocks, witches, wizards, etc, etc, etc… exist in this world?
“New Age, shamanistic practitioner, communist apologist, John Perkins’”
This one really blew me away… what kind of evidence do you have other than a site that in the about us states:
“The Dream Change Comminity
DREAM CHANGE (DC) is a world wide grass roots movement of people from diverse cultures and backgrounds dedicated to shifting consciousness and promoting sustainable lifestyles for the individual and global community. The objective of inspiring earth-honoring changes in consciousness is accomplished through programs that educate and foster environmental and social balance. DC was originated to encourage new ways of living.”
This is something I also found funny because I could not find a single quote by John Perkins himself as being a Communist apologist or even a New Age/Shamanistic Practitioner.
“Parts III and IV of Addendum supports this utopian reordering of society that occultists have longed for.”
This is something I could never understand. In the Film Jacque Fresco states it is not Utopian, it is not a perfect world, it is much better than what we have now, and that we can never reach perfection.
Also the entire society is based on nothing but technology and the scientific method… out of curiosity do you even know how the scientific method works?
This entire article to me just screams with nothing but anti-science apologetic claims.
August 23rd, 2009 at 2:42 am
Fresco gets to define the terms on his own terms? Quite convenient.
Re: socialism (see Griffin’s take)
Re: Krishnamurti
You’re into Krishnamurti, then you’re into Theosophy by extension. Peter Joseph is too much of a coward to admit it, even though his films wreak of it.
Re: Perkins
Read his book. He is a Marxist apologist. An astute poster at Daily Paul put it this way:
As for Perkins flaming wacko New Age/shamanistic indulgences, his official sites on the internet are full of it. Are you blind? This too:
You know what a disinformation agent does? He tells half truths that - though outrageous - seem believable on the surface, while the original argument is actually fact. The information is promoted to the hilt and made sure that it becomes viral and gains a following. The asset is then told to get involved with a fringe movement - any one will do, just so long as it can easily be discredited. After that, it is only a matter of saying: “Look at the kook. Shapeshifting and Shamanism? New Age healer? Tff … we knew that stuff about economic hitmen was bunk!”
I’m not anti-science. You failed miserably to grasp the point. I’m anti-Technocracy, and anti-scientism and against an elite deciding anything whatsoever as it concerns me or society at large.
I study history and the history of ideas. It’s more than just a hobby of mine. I know from whence these doctrines descend, and from whom. “Peter Joseph” is counting on it that you ARE NOT as well read. (What a cult leader fears most are followers who are truly informed.) Start with Henri de Saint-Simon (Frank Manuel’s monograph and Billington’s essential summaries and analyses in Fire in the Minds) and branch from there. If after that you don’t get the gist of it, then there is no hope for you. You have blinders on.
August 28th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
“You’re into Krishnamurti, then you’re into Theosophy by extension.”
That makes no sense whatsoever. That’s like saying you have degree’s in Biblical Studies therefore you support religion and it’s ideals.
It’s like saying you play World of Warcraft so therefore you must a WoW addict.
It’s like saying you smoke weed, therefore you addicted to weed…
It’s like saying… well I think you know where I am getting with this. Your statement is nothing more than a huge Logical Fallacy… probably the end all of Logical Fallacies.
“I am interested in someone who used to be apart of the Theosophical Society, but I was never interested in any of their speeches when he was part of the Theosophical Society, but after he dissolved from it… he became interested. However by extent I am interested in Theosophical Society.”
You see how ridiculous this completely bunked notion is?
Also about the leaders… actually if you even took the time to speak to various people within those countries, looked at the speeches from those places, etc, etc, etc… and talked to people who witnessed the events; his story actually does match up with reality.
Be that as it may, historically the American Revolution was viewed (as far as the British side goes into it) as some kind of ragtog group of men trying to undermine the monarchy. Their was a huge campaign to demonize them… this is in fact something that is regularly done throughout history. Such as the Jew’s being viewed as inferior by Rome, such as the various insurgent groups against the Chinese Emperors being viewed as barbarians similar with how we viewed the Native Americans during the 1800s where people were ordered to kill any Native American people and/or enslave them.
This type of tactic has been used for thousands of years… what makes you think it still isn’t being used today?
I also find it funny that you are willing tout his “leadership” of Neoshamanism when in reality the term doesn’t mean much and it varies from person to person so unless I hear a statement from John Perkins himself, it really isn’t going to do much.
Also apparently the critic never did watch the film otherwise he would note what the film actually states is “nearly all crimes a cause of the monetary system.” Also I think he is making the erroneous statement of an age old quote where it actually states “The love of money is the root of all evil.” So I give you an EF for epic fail on that.
Also you failed and I mean EPICLY FAILED to address my other point about the Venus Project and Socialism. You just ran with the high horse of John Perkin’s view, the association fallacy (the biggest fallacy of them all) and thus tried to associate that with the Movement.
Be that as it may, even if John Perkins is a Communist Apologist (of which all you just make is some kind of asinine appeal to authority) it does not mean what he says is any less valid. Newton believed in Spirits, the Philosophers stone, etc… does this mean we should through out Newtonian Mechanics because of Newton’s views? No…
Also Peter Joseph is not a cult leader… he’s not even a leader. He is what you would associate with the Movement, but he has expressed over two dozen times that he is not a leader. He has also encouraged people to be informed, to look things up, to address his claims. How can Peter be some kind of cult leader and tell people not to take his word for it? That makes little to no sense.
Also, yes I know about Henri de Saint-Simons French Socialism, it does not pertain to the Venus Project because for obvious reasons his idea was based on Merit gained… while Jacque has stated that people will have access to everything and people can learn what they wish and contribute to society in whatever way they can be it new technological inventions, music, art, philosopher, literature or entertainment. There is no restriction based on merit, education, class or even status in society that would prohibit you or anyone trying to contribute.
How is that when I address you claim, all you just did was offer up the same arguments I just addressed?
EF for Epic Fail.
January 12th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
You see communists everywhere. Go get your brain fixed.
April 9th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Nickoli Volkoff_
YOu re being totally dishonest and deceitful. Christians and Christianity are not starting any wars. In fact, if you want to keep God and Jesus totally out of it, fine. It is the zionist jews, who are either atheistic or luciferian, that have been manipulating events from behind the scenes and starting the wars. Almost every single one of them masons. Many belonging to Luciferian halls and secret societies. If you weed away the lower ranks and get to the heart of the matter, you will find they’re all satanists and luciferians. If they don’t believe they are a god themselves, they believe Lucifer to be God and “the light”. It is tehse people who have started all the wars. ANd you know this…. So quit blaming christianity.
The Venus Project is another cunning Luciferian project. You need to watch some of the documentaries made by Chris White , Cozmik Truth, and Keith Truth.
May 26th, 2010 at 4:47 am
Hmm. So because the ideas of the Venus Project can be traced to some literary works that are considered to be technocratic or… essentially … more schools of thought that lead to opression and control… we should vilify them? Jaques Fresco is an engineer that wants to create buildings that integrate natural processes… and provide working permaculture systems. He wants to do away with money and intelligently manage the Earth’s resources to provide the best we can for each individual. Clearly… this balance and doling would have to be organized by computers and then monitored by people… not the other way around. The idea is to take the greed as far away from society as possible.
While I agree that Utopian”ism” is a faraway dream that most tend to believe is just a literary concept and nothing more… I think the ideas expressed by Fresco are closer than anyone has come to dreaming of a system that could just work. There’s really nothing more important than managing the Earth’s resources… I feel that’s clear at this point… at least to me… but logically speaking… is there anything more important? We should be developing strategies to create society around that concept, at the very least… and that’s what he’s doing.
At some point you need to trust somebody. His ideas are actually incredibly good. As an engineer, myself (software and permaculture)… I think his designs are very well thought out, having viewed several of them (on paper) specifically. I know history keeps teaching us horrible lessons about men who want to lead… but he’s not really a leader, he’s a engineer. I think you’re all a bit too paranoid. Since you don’t like Jaques Fresco… then what system DO you consider to be utopian? How else would you free the people? Removing money and providing everyone with the most abundance we can possibly sustain sounds like a good concept to me. What works for you? Should we just stick with the system we have and ride that out until we all starve and die of thirst? How do we live in concert with Earth in an elitist technocracy? The entire aim of the Venus Project is to connect us to the planet and work WITH it’s systems and ecological loops, rather than against them… and you’re saying that’s still incorrect. I think you are all a bit too paranoid… wishing to spew your knowledge of Hegelian philosophy back and fourth rather than spew thoughts about solutions. As far as I’m concerned, you’ve all become the thing you hate. Break down my words all you want… but at the end of the day… sitting at a coffee shop and talking about Descartes is just an arrogant waste of time that helps perpetuate a system of disconnected, divisive bullshit.
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:56 am
Yeah, what Steve said.
Oops! Guilt by association again…
But seriously Terry, thanks for starting a very productive post and congrats to everyone for remaining civilized through out it.
Terry, if you could please start a post, write and essay or make a movie outlining your solutions to the same problems addressed by Fresco and Joseph, then I would be delighted to critique you!
oh BTW, I know this comes 2 years after you made the comment but there are, language difficulties aside, now 418,484 people registered at the ZM website, so there is indeed a movement and it’s gaining momentum regardless of whether you think us to be delusional or misguided.
“It is the characteristic excellence of the strong man that he can bring momentous issues to the fore and make a decision about them. The weak are always forced to decide between alternatives they have not chosen themselves.” - Dietrich Bonhoeffer
September 20th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Hello everyone,
Let me start slowly and give a thought about what I have to say:
First of all, people here are all looking for answers. Most people doesn’t do that and are happy (or unhappy) in their state of being. Also, everyone is looking for “truth”. I myself was looking for the very thing and after some time I realized, that I was not really looking for “truth” but I was really looking for understanding. Let me back that up:
There really is no such thing as “the truth”. There are only facts. Everything else is pure interpretation. I myself was not able to actually tell the difference between “what really happened” and what I”saw”. For vast majority of people thes two things are so much interconnected, that they are not even able to tell the diference. Interpretation means giving or atributing “meaning” to event.
Ever heard question: “What does this mean?”. More correct question would be: “What does this mean to you?”
Event itself has no meaning until you give one to it. Give event one interpretation and you will be happy, give it another and you will be sad. The reason humans do this is because it helps them to orient in the world faster. This create patterns of behavior. However these very patterns of behavior also prevent human to see other aspects and to think “outside the box”.
Also on this matter I would like to state, that no two interpretations are the same. Reason is quite simple. In order to have an interpretation, you need an interpretor - human being. And since every life of each human is different, so is the experience and ultimatly the very brains of individuals. It is a fact that there are no two same brains on the planet, no same tomograph images, thus there cannot be any two same points of view.
When you asses these facts, all you are left with are interpreting humans, who are interdependant. In order to actualy make things work, you need to comunicate and understand different humans beings.
This is where Jacque comes and tell you: “There is no such thing as a human nature, only human behavior. Human behavior is created by the enviroment.”
This is valid for Adolf Hitler, Obama, you, me, Banksters, Christians etc. This means that there is no such thing as good or evil. Its all just human bahavior. The thing is not about passing judgements, but trying to understand the enviroment from which particular person comes from.
Humans act to the best they learned. Yet just so few actually learned on understanding each other.
What you can see around you are people bashing each other with arguments and their opinions. All looking for “the truth”. Well, there is no “truth”. Or more precisly: “Truth is, what I precieve as the truth.” This means, that each human has his own “truth”. Everyone has truth. Everyone is right. Sad thing about being right is, that you cannot learn anything new.
If you know “the truth”, how can you learn anything new? How can you become a better person? How can you solve your problems and problems of others? You can’t.
In the end it comes to a choise. Choise between wisdom and ingnorance. Choise between love and fear. You can either choose to “be right” or to listen and learn from each other.
So in the end I would like to know answer to this question:
“If you go and tell people about these groups (Illuminaty, NWO etc.), what do you propose to do with it?”
“Do you see it as a one-time phenomena or do you percieve it as a built-in the system in a sence that money it self leads to stratification and ultimatly to such groups?”
And more importantly:
“If you you percieve The Zeitgeist movement or the Venus project as an inadeqate solution to world problems, what other solution you propose?”
PS:
I want to stress that I’m not really interested in who is who (black, white, jew, christian, luciferic, NWO, ku klux clan, comunnist, nazi etc.) but I’m really more interested in what are the problems and how to solve them.
February 14th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
I feel like those who don’t see what’s “wrong” with Zeitgeist also don’t understand what’s “wrong” with the Illuminati’s plans for world governance.
I’m an agnostic, so it isn’t about me being a Christian. However, I’ve looked into the New World Order plans enough to know that it isn’t good for people like us. They are anti-human and anti-life; that’s evil, I don’t care if you’re religious or not. The current problems in the world were deliberately caused by them, through the fractional reserve banking system, the deliberate dumbing down of state-run education and control of the media, among many others. To embrace the NWO as a solution would be like asking a guy who just robbed you if you could borrow some money. (wait… that is what they do!)
They sell it by using words like “peace,” “equality,” “unity” and others to appeal to your ethos. Of course we all want those things. But that’s not what they have in store, sorry to say!
They’re creepy and so is Zeitgeist.