Mystery Solved: The Alleged “Three World Wars” Albert Pike Prediction
A few of you have known that I’ve been on the trail of the source of the so-called Three World Wars letter of August 15, 1871. It took me a while, but I’ve finally cracked the case.
I take the reader through the process of discovery, provide a complete translation of the original source, and end with a critical evaluation.
There probably have been French historians out there who’ve known the truth of the matter, but as far as the English speaking world, it is a first.
Tags: Albert Pike, Leo Taxil, Lucifer, Luciferianism, Mazzini, Satanism, Taxil Hoax, Three World Wars
PERFECTIBILISTS: The 18th Century Bavarian Order of the Illuminati
The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship
Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism
Fire in the Minds of Men: Origins of the Revolutionary Faith
America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones
October 5th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Excelent research. Thank you for sharing. Nevertheless,they are doing it toward the NWO.Regards. Antonio
October 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Good sleuthing, well done.
I will be using the Bataille/Taxil quotation as a soporific from here on in. You’ve educated me and Taxil has given me a very useful antidote to insomnia.
October 5th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Bravo good sir!
October 6th, 2010 at 2:25 am
Thanks. Glad the exercise wasn’t for naught.
If by chance they read it, do you think that Maxwell, Icke, Jones, J. R. Church et al. will retract? I would hope so. No one likes to find out they’ve been duped.
But even after the truth is known, some will continue to perpetuate a lie simply because it fulfills the means to an end. The longevity of the Taxil hoax material is proof enough of this assertion. Unfortunately, newbies will continue to be duped by it for years to come. Unless, that is, they have the discipline and honesty to try and get to the bottom of it themselves before they pass it on to the next as is.
There’s many legitimate bones to pick with Freemasonry, as long as you document it properly (which I always take pains to do). One does not need to rely upon the ravings of an admitted charlatan. And if that’s the case, they should immediately be discredited.
In 2000 when I first got an internet connection, I immediately went about creating my own website on Geocities. One of the first pages I wrote was about Freemasonry. I had all my quotes in line, the Pike “Lucifer … he who bears the light,” and the Manly P. Hall “seething energies of Lucifer,” etc. One in particular, however, seemed suspect - I could feel it. But in typical neophyte fashion I included it anyway (probably for shock value more than anything).
The quote went as follows:
Well, it didn’t take long for a swift correction to come along in an email. I was provided with all the necessary sources in order to confirm or deny myself, and the informant just left it at that. He turned out to be right. I had verified it to my own satisfaction that the quote indeed came from the Taxil hoax material, and I immediately excised it from the webpage.
Unfortunately, William Guy Carr and Lady Queensborough - either through laziness or malicious intent - promulgated the lies of Taxil unto a new generation, who, in turn, laped it up with glee.
Taxil is busting a gut in his grave!
October 6th, 2010 at 7:07 am
I had a similar experience a few years ago and it shows how valuable checking sources is.
Just because someone wrote a book and quotes a reference does not make it true!
Sometimes people believe things without checking them because it fits their worldview, when it is their point of view that needs to be re-focused!
Here are some more quotes on Freemasonry that make interesting reading.
http://www.jubilee.org.nz/articles/eye-opening-statements-on-freemasonry/
Thanks very much Terry for your post on this.
October 6th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Terry,
I think that I found some clues concerning the motivations behind Carr’s use of the Taxil’s materials.
Carr was a member and I believe a President at one time of the National Federation of Christian Laymen.
This organization also published Plans of the Synogogue of Satan, which reprints Eustace Mullins Abominable, Yet True tract, a very anti-semitic piece. Mullins dabbled in occultism and was an admirer and acquaintance of occultist and poet Ezra Pound.
This group seems to have done what J. Edgar Hoover’s mentor and the “father of American Intelligence,” Ralph Van Deman did with his private intelligence network. If you look at Van Deman’s files, you find articles that constantly conflate Jews with Freemasonry and Communism. Forget for a moment Hoover’s own Masonic pedigree. Go figure!
Phil and I wrote about him in part four of our Ruling Class-Sponsored Race War and the Balkanization of America series. Van Deman also looms large in Joseph Bendersky’s The “Jewish Threat”: Anti-Semitic Politics of the U.S. Army.
This all seems to have been part of preserving the Manichean character of the Cold War. As a matter of fact, Carr’s wikipedia entry states:
“As a Christian traditionalist, Carr has a strong Manichean way of thinking that is common to many anti-Mason and anti-Communist conspiracy theorist of the Cold War period.”
As Dave Emory says, “Food for thought and further research.”
October 7th, 2010 at 1:04 am
Thanks, Paul.
It makes a lot of sense. I feel it comes down to the error in thinking which postulates the existence and continued perpetration of a single monolithic conspiracy, or the Master Conspiracy thesis. Such an absolutist mindset necessarily has to marshal any and all “evidence” in the means to its end. A theory of everything, if you will. Made to order, and wrapped in a pat package.
October 7th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
I wish I had a quarter for every time Paul and I have had to refute the Master Conspiracy thesis. Sadly, that myth persists because simple minds demand explanatory unity. Nevertheless, I am so grateful for honest researchers that follow the evidence, not presuppositions. Of course, you fall into that category, Terry. Awesome work!
Phil
October 7th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Terry, thank you so much for this. There is more still in Carr’s “Pawns” to be debunked, but this particular bit shows exemplary research on your part.
I’ve been meaning to start a thread on ATS debunking Carr’s claims that the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States was an Illuminati symbol. As far as I’ve been able to determine, that myth started in “Pawns in the Game”, and has been picked up without question by so many conspiracy theorists who have followed. Between Carr and the Shea/Wilson trilogy of the mid 1970s, it has become a pop culture belief that such is true, without a shred of evidence to back it up.
October 7th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Terry: After reading your book The Perfectibilists, thank you; my being on Haupts’ (didn’t he purchase the site from its previous owner?) list for awhile, you certainly are tugging at the strings on all this confusion and ignorance of this sorely misunderstood history. Very well done.
If I may, I would like to point out how much Britain is excused from this history when it was a member of Oxford’s Bullingdon Club who put a bullet into the head of Rasputin which apparently kicked off the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia.
“Prince Feliks Yusupov (1887-1967) was a member of the Bullington Club. He and British intelligence officer Oswald Rayner were long time close personal friends, classmates at Oxford and loyal companions in St. Petersburg, Russia. Together with Count Vladimir Purishkevich, they killed Rasputin in 1916 and triggered the Russian revolution.”
http://www.abeldanger.net/2010/04/bullingdon-club.html
Rasputin, the hypnotic adviser to the Russian Tsar Nicholas II and his wife Alexandra, was assassinated by an MI6 officer who fired the fatal shot, while Sidney Reilly, nicknamed the “Ace of Spies,” planned to kill the whole of the Soviet leadership during a meeting at the Bolshoi Theatre in 1918.
http://www.abeldanger.net/2010/09/promise-of-sex-ace-of-spies-mi6-serial.html
Bullingdon Club alumni include Nathaniel Rothschild, Boris Johnson, Mayor of the City of London, David Cameron, leader of the British Conservative Party, Cecil Rhodes and the man who murdered Rasputin, Prince Feliks Yusupov. Whether people know it or not, Bullingdon Club members take blood oaths and recruits it’s members from the upper circles of British society. Members participation in acts of violence, destructive binges, sabotage, sex, S&M, drug use and other acts are filmed or otherwise recorded and used later in extortion to obtain political concessions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullingdon_Club
Members are later placed in positions of power and influence throughout the world and controlled and blackmailed into executing the plans of the power behind the club, i.e., City of London, its Livery Companies and esoteric banking fraternity.
“Wherever you go an Oxford man will be at the top of any tree - except science.” — Cecil Rhodes
October 8th, 2010 at 2:12 am
Thanks Josh. Much appreciated.
Robert Hieronimus’ research assistant emailed me earlier in the year asking about the same thing, after reading my book. So I did a bit of digging and found out that Carr wasn’t the first. That entire page, including the same graphic, was cribbed from a previous book by Emanuel Mann Josephson: Roosevelt’s communist manifesto. (see here) I haven’t a copy of it, so I’m not sure if Josephson in turn got it from someone else.
In general though, and in addition to the research in Perfectibilists, here are some factors that might have contributed to the attribution:
1) the fact that the Great Seal has the Roman numerals 1776 was significant in the eyes of conspiracy theorists. The Illuminati, after all, was born in that year. 2) Aleister Crowley was fascinated with the Illuminati as well and claimed Weishaupt as one of the “saints” for the Hermetic Golden Dawn. In the early 20th century he edited a magazine called the Equinox which professed to be “a review of scientific illuminism.” On the cover of said publication is prominent the all-seeing eye in the triangle.
Surely if there was a previous theorizer besides Carr and Josephson, the publication would be recorded in the following exhaustive volumes:
Kent L. Walgren: Freemasonry, Anti-Masonry and Illuminism in the U.S. 1734-1850: A Bibliography, 2 volumes. (Worcester MA: American Antiquarian Society, 2003, 1136pp [Volume 1 = 1734-1827; Volume II = 1827-1850]
The all-seeing eye wasn’t a symbol of the Illuminati, and it is never mentioned in the primary and contemporary records. Alchemists, Masons, Hermeticists and Rosicrucians, even the Jacobins - Catholics only in churches, and specifically above the altar - utilized it profusely. Never for the capstone of a pyramid though. The Great Seal Committee seems to have invented the amalgamation all on its own for the first time in history. Pierre Eugene DuSimitiere, if he wasn’t actually a Mason (as your brethren profess), did however possess books on alchemy and hermeticism from the previous century, which, as you know, were rife with plates and illustrations that invariably included all-seeing eyes and the like.
October 8th, 2010 at 2:26 am
Sherlock,
Thanks. Glad you like the book and article. As for Haupt and the website, I think it’s the other way around, that is, it was purchased after by someone and Haupt now has nothing to do with it.
The Bullingdon Club information you have is fascinating. I shall look into it some more. Thanks.
October 9th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Killer research Terry! You’ve done it again! I’ve been hoping for some time that someone would tackle this one. A little while ago, for my own interest, I made a list of fraudulent info that needs to be jettisoned for legitimate conspiracy research to move forward. I think I planned on making a website out of the concept but the infinitely heavy anchor of my own procrastination prevented that ship from ever setting sail. Thankfully, you are a far more diligent man than I. In just one article alone you covered 2 of the phony items that made my list. Those being Taxil’s Palladium Luciferians b.s and the whole Pike and Manzini 3 world wars thing. Here are the other items that made my list. I know you have covered several of these in other articles too.
That the Rothschild’s Funded the Illuminati
That the Illuminati and Jesuits are the same thing
That Weishaupt was Jewish
That the Protocols of Zion were written by an evil cabal of Jews
Baruch Levy’s Letter to Marx
The Priory of Zion Myth
Crypto-Scientologist, anti-psychiatry crap (not that psychiatry is above criticism)
and Any crap about Space Reptiles, Illuminati Bloodlines or supposed “Illuminati” defectors
Once these things are fully refuted for good (which will probably take a long time) a viable, political opposition to elite machinations might finally start to form. Removing the disinfo of creeps like Taxil is like separating dried dog diarrhea from a box of Captain Crunch using only a pair of tweezers and a tooth brush. Or something like that.
October 10th, 2010 at 7:33 am
I’m happy you appreciate it Ross. You actually made laugh out loud too, so thanks!
A big part of the problem is that consumers of conspiracy books are content to take the author at their word. It is up to claimant to marshal the evidence for their case. If not, it should be demanded of them. Alternative researchers constantly point the finger at academic historians on high as the problem; of having suppressed information at the behest of the elite. While I’m sure this does occur, they completely omit the fact that historians are trained to be completely transparent in their sourcing. This in turn ensures that they won’t get away with the dishonesty for long. Their peers would eventually eat them for breakfast. Likewise, the same standards should apply to everyone who tries their hand at history.
Since there’s no peer review in conspiracy literature, criticism has to come from elsewhere. Readers themselves aren’t inclined to confront the authors on their own. It’s not their job anyway. Academia cannot do it either, since they are suspect in the eyes of the conspiracists. Talk show hosts and podcasters, however, could indeed take on the task. The interview should be conducted in a truly journalistic fashion. For example: if you have on a guest who claims that there’s such a thing as a “Committee of 300” that rule the world and has as bona fide members the most powerful people on the planet, make him prove it! Call him out and hold him to the fire: “What exactly do you mean by ‘Committee of 300’? Is that actually the name for the organization that, amongst themselves, is recognized as such? ‘Founded by the British aristocracy in 1727,’ you write. By whom, exactly; and where? What are the names of its founding members? Headquartered where? What are its statutes? How come you do not provide any documentation in the book? Should we just take your word for it, especially coming from a ‘former’ intelligence operative?” Or - “You claim here on page so and so that the Rothschilds not only financed the Illuminati but actually went so far as to have been the brains and brawn behind the entire enterprise. You are aware that this contradicts history as we know it, don’t you? Further, your only source for the assertion is a book by William Guy Carr. I checked said citation, sir, and Carr in turn does not source these claims. For all we know, he could have made it up one morning after having waffles and juice. Indeed, it is likely that that is the case. Shouldn’t you have informed the readers of this fact; that Carr provided not a single reference for anyone to check? Moreover, and to the point, why is it that you have just repeated such an assertion without doing the necessary research to prove or disprove it yourself?”
October 10th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Exactly! Glad you mentioned Committee of 300 too. I forgot that one on my list. I noticed Alex Jones has had a few guest that mentioned it (and didn’t get called on it) several times now. Usually I can see past Jones’ hammy behavior and hyperbole (in the end his flaws are no different than the average mainstream radio pundit) but that one, along with his frequent use of David, “there are Reptoids under me bed” Icke really irks me.
October 12th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Weishaupt wasn’t Jewish and neither was Marx. Karl Marx was a Lutheran and a Freemason and Weishaupt was a Catholic and a Freemason.
Sorry Brethren…
October 13th, 2010 at 12:13 am
Terry it is vital that your readers, if not Freemasonic research, that the true name and identity of the anti-catholic pornographer Leo Taxil is known.
Leo Taxil’s real name wasn’t Dr. Baitille but Gabriel Jogand Pages. This man was a prolific pornographer and was initiated into a lodge of Freemasonry in the Grand Orient of France.
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/luciferquotes.html
It is also vital for your readers, if not Freemasonic research, to know that Freemasonry uses the ‘Taxil Hoax’ to misdirect non-masons away from learning about Freemasonry and Lucifer in Masonic Rituals and Writings.
Thank-you
Freemasonry Watch
October 13th, 2010 at 2:57 am
Re: Pages
I know. I stated as much in the sub-title: “…the confessed hoaxer Gabriel Jogand-Pagès aka Dr. Bataille aka Leo Taxil…”
The piece is rather long and I worked on the text and translation, daily, for a week and a half. I was initially planning on ending with a very detailed account of Pages, his life, and his shenanigans; more detailed than anything in English thus far. But that would have entailed more book purchases and yet more translations from French. So, instead, I opted to include links to the sources I intended to use and allow the reader to investigate for themselves. In particular, for those interested, see Léo Taxil, Diana Vaughan et l’Église Romaine : (Histoire d’un mystification) (1901) and above all, Marie-France James, Ésotérisme, occultisme, franc-maçonnerie et christianisme aux XIXe et XXe siècles, Volume 2, p. 247ff. Unfortunately the best sources are still in French, but if you understand the language, the Taxil bio in Marie-France James’ book is the best, even divulging the fact that before he became an Anti-Catholic, he was seduced by revolutionaries of his day, was involved with the Commune de Marseille, and had contacts with, and practically worshiped, Garibaldi.
You haven’t commented on my research, though. You do realize that I have conclusively proved that the “letter” wasn’t a letter at all, rather only the fairy tale of Pages. And further, Carr not only misrepresented it entirely, but had the gull to actually pile more manure on top, i.e. the made up bit about the three world wars. So, in point of fact, when you state at your site, “The quotations we provide for Pike three of which he wrote himself and are not contested by Masonry in any way(the 1st, 3rd, and 4th),” it is incorrect. This 4th quote you claim is uncontested is the very “three world wars” “letter” that I have addressed.
As for the Abel Clarin de la Rive quote, the 2nd one your page, It sounds to me like we’ll never get to the bottom of this one as it seems there’s no other primary source other than de la Rive. And all that Masonic historian Arturo de Hoyos has managed to do, in the appeal to reason, is to point to de la Rive’s comment after the passage. Hoyos:
“The real evidence of a hoax comes in de la Rive’s footnote, which neither Lady Queenborough nor anyone else has ever bothered quoting. The footnote refers to Diana Vaughan, the matchless creation of Léo Taxil’s twisted mind, who, despite her illustrious pedigree created by Taxil, never existed.
*Ce fut la Sur Diana Vaughan qu’Albert Pike,–afin de lui donner la plus grande marque de confiance,–chargea d’apporter son encyclique luciférienne, à Paris, pendant l’Exposition Universelle.
*It was the Sister Diana Vaughan that Albert Pike,–in order to give her the greatest mark of confidence,–charged to carry his luciferian encyclical, to Paris, during the Universal Exposition.”
But I am inclined to agree with the interpretation. Vaughan was yet another important pseudonym of Pages. It was Taxil, then, who personally delivered the “luciferian encyclical” to de la Rive in order to further the hoax, and said it came from Vaughan; or, alternatively, de la Rive cribbed it from a “Vaughan” book. Keep in mind that Vaughan and the Palladium bunk, after all, is the hoax (as admitted by Taxil himself). Moreover, de la Rive had the integrity to denounce Taxil after his confession and apologized for unintentionally misleading his readers. (He even gave a list of books, which he wrote before, that for all intents and purposes should be considered as having not existed - La Femme et L’Enfant dans la Franc-Maçonnerie Universelle is probably one of them, but I haven’t the means to say for sure.) No one likes to be duped, but it takes a whole different animal to continue the ruse afterward simply because they can’t bear to part with a preconceived belief, continuing the deception for no other reason than to smear the enemy in any manner possible.
All this being said, you already know my stance on Freemasonry and the occult. The entire modern esoteric/occult edifice is dependent upon Freemasonry; in its outright teachings or in the myths and interpretations giving to it by various other occult devotees. Either way, it is of the utmost importance to the growth and expansion of esotericism proper. All the occult movements from the 18th century on up could not have existed - at least in the form it ultimately took - without Freemasonry. Years ago, I initially concentrated on the occult revival during the 19th century, but through researching my book on the Illuminati I had to become intimately familiar with the occult milieu in that century as well. Let me tell you, they didn’t screw around back then. The Masons in Europe before, during and after the Illuminati, were occult adepts of the highest order. Seriously, Crowley et al. were mere neophytes desperately trying to reconstitute the masonic occult sciences of the Philalethes, Cagliostro, St. Germain, the Strict Observance, Illumines d’Avignon, Elus Cohen and the Martinists, the Ecole Nord of Carl von Hessen-Cassel, the Swedenborgs and especially the Golden and Rosy Cross and the kabbalistic Asiatic Brethren. And yes, some were obsessed with Lucifer, and wrote entire tomes explaining his symbolic meaning along with philosophic-occult notions of pre-adamic primitivism.
Pike draws upon this tradition extensively for use in the formulation of the degrees of the Scottish Rite.
And for all the craft’s pooh-poohing, there are Masons today who make pronouncements such as this. Bro. Roslund acts and sounds like the embodiment of Manly P. Hall’s “seething energies of Lucifer.”
October 14th, 2010 at 3:50 am
Good job Terry, nice video.
I made that page because whenever engaged in an occultism arguement with Masons they brought up the Taxil hoax to explain away the Church critiques, suggesting that the Christian criticism is based on the ‘work’ of Taxil. Frankly it all sounded too pat. There is an another article floating around about Taxil & Da La Rive I think it is, maybe I can dig it up, it has some additional resources that question whether Taxil was really Vaughn or not.
There is an article on the Rosicrucian site about Masonry & Lucifer, which comes from some channelling I suppose, that sounds a little bit like the grandiose scheme attributed to Bro. Albert Pike’s spirt guides.
http://www.rosicrucian.com/frc/frceng01.htm
Scary reading frankly.
God Bless,
October 15th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Justin is right “Good sleuthing, well done. ” Great job!! What is really working against each of us behind the scenes is interesting as we don’t always know the truth. Evil seems to be taking over the world view politics & everything else in our lives.
Might also read a book out about taking a stand against our govt. trying to divide Americans (Obama calls it Tribalism). We need to all stand together to defend our freedoms. I recommend it.
booksbyoliver.com
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Fascinating research that debunks 3 World War theory……or does it?
I don’t think we need the Pike “letter” to prove that a Judaeo-Masonic conspiracy is evident in depressions, revolutions and wars from the French Revolution on do we?
The cradle of the American Civil War was Charleston where French Grand Orient-affiliated lodges predominated. H.A.Gwynne mentioned above as running the Cause of World Unrest series in the Morning Post in 1920 noted the strong Jewish influence exercised throughout the Charleston Lodges. General Beauregard the Confederate General who fired on Ft. Sumter was a Templar mason. He was certainly in the same army as Pike. He may even have been in the same Lodge!
Gwynne suspected British war aims in WW1 had been subverted by the same Judaeo-Masonic conspiracy. Gwynne was prosecuted when he was brave enough to publish, one Colonel Repington’s, military objections to Lloyd George’s massive re-deployment of British troops from the Western Front to Palestine.
While we’re on the subject of Gwynne wasn’t Churchill himself involved in the same post-Protocols debate on Judaeo-Masonic conspiracy? In 1920 in the Illustrated Sunday Herald WSC wondered at the unparalleled success the international network of Jewish revolutionaries ( he mentioned Marx, Trotsky, Bela Kun, and Emma Goldman ) had enjoyed up to that point in history. He specifically mentioned the post-WW1 Bolshevik Rette Republik in Bavaria so he seems to have noticed that the war had had the effect of spreading Jewish-inspired Bolshevism.
Are we really to believe that WSC was unaware that those he mentioned-aside perhaps from Goldman-were all masons? Being as WSC also specifically cited Nesta Webster approvingly as the main source for his own theories this seems unlikely.
Mind you WSC seems not to have fretted unduly after WW2 when communism spread further still across E.Europe.
The role of Grand Orient/Scottish Rite masonry in the Civil War extended beyond the military one of Generals Beauregard and Pike to the personnel in Davis’s cabinet. Both Secretary for War Judah P Benjamin and Dr Kuttner Baruch were British Rothschild agents. According to Dope INC (1978) both subsequently became involved in the plot to assassinate Lincoln. The Rothschilds as usual financed both sides in the Civil War but their support for the South was also motivated by the desire to avenge the Tsar’s offer to help Lincoln in the event of British and French intervention on the Southern side.
If Mazzini never sent a letter to Pike or vice versa maybe it’s because he didn’t need to. According to Dope INC Mazzini’s “Young Italy” was part of the Palmerston network of ethnic secret societies that included B’nai B’rith that British intelligence helped infiltrate into the US during the 19th century. Pike and B’nai B’rith laid the foundations for Mazzini’s mafia proteges in New Orleans,Joseph Macheca and Charles Matrenga, and these early Godfathers became involved in Pike’s KKK guerilla war against Reconstruction.
We see the same Judaeo-Masonic networks involved in the Young Turk revolution which overthrew Abdul Hamid II in 1915. When he was deposed by Carruso Hamid was taken to Salonika where he was held under house arrest by a group of Italian bankers who were co-conspirators with Carruso’s Grand Orient Lodge.
Yes, the Pike-Mazzini letter may be a fraud, but perhaps Carr’s role was as much Cold War warrior as it was conspiracy theorist anyway. Weren’t most conspiracists Cold War warriors at that time? After all Lay Christian Foundation colleague, Alfred Kohlberg, was mentor to Roy Cohn, an infamous Macarthyite Red-baiter. Kohlberg, like the Christian evangelicals and conservative Catholics he befriended, saw the subversions of Left Jews as the cause of lurking antisemitism in the US. He favoured a US hyper-nationalism abroad complemented by intense counter-subversion at home.
Kohlberg’s priorities are not dissimilar from Israeli Lobby and neo-con ones today. According to some conspiracists Kohlberg was a Zionist and the JBS was a Zionist front group of which he was a founder member:
http://100777.com/node/1560
So were Carr and Kohlberg on the same side?
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:43 pm
“Fascinating research that debunks 3 World War theory……or does it?”
Yes. Most emphatically, it does. The “three world wars” prediction nonsense was made up by Carr wholesale. And there was/is no “letter”. It is a Taxil-hoax screed. It is plainly obvious to anyone versed in the particulars who looks at this piece objectively.
There is no historical record of Mazzini and Pike having communicated let alone conspiring against the world together. That’s the problem with “conspiracists.” Give me some documentation and I’m a happy man. Otherwise, I have better things to do with my time than to believe in tall-tales.
January 24th, 2011 at 7:59 am
The source for Mazzini’s correspondence with Pike is Chapter XXX in Queenborough’s Occult Theocrasy (1933).
The coverage in Dope Inc. is Chapter 2 (1978).
Presumably you would discount both sources?
January 24th, 2011 at 8:32 am
In this chapter Queensborough uses Bataille but also cites Domenico Margiotta. Evaluation of whistle-blower,Margiotta here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/evil/dwf/dwf12.htm
January 24th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
“The source for Mazzini’s correspondence with Pike is Chapter XXX”
Sorry, it is not. It originated with Taxil, the hoaxer. Margiotta was caught up in it. Queensborough knew this, but dishonestly included it in her book anyway.
Bataille is the pseudonym of Hacks and Taxil. It is part and parcel of the voluminous Palladium Pike/Mazzini devil worship fairy tale.
Margiotta was duped by Taxil, and the latter had a chuckle at the former’s expense.
If you believe all this, then you must also believe other things in the hoax material: that Pike communicated with Lucifer every Friday at 3:00 PM; that he and his satanic minions conversed, instantly anywhere on the globe, with Satan, through a magical bracelet - tale tales for scared little children around a campfire. Having believed this nonsense, you must also choose to ignore his confession, while ignoring also that you yourself are the sort of dupe that Taxil laughed wholeheartedly at.
Taxil:
Queensborough is a dupe, as well as EIR, Carr, and all the rest. That, or shameless accessories.
January 24th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
It comes down to a matter of integrity. Period. I am no friend of the Masons and have written many an antimasonic piece in my time and continue to do so. I, however, back it up with verifiable documentation. But when I find out that I have been duped - that the information I thought was legit turned out to made up entirely - I get pissed. And so should you.
What I don’t do is pass it on to the next dupe in the chain simply because the tall-tale is damaging to the opposition. I get pissed when people do this, too. And so should you.
January 24th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
Another thing: the more provable bullshit that gets flung around by conspiracy theorists (whether they realize it or not), the more easy it is to ignore anything and everything that that person subsequently says or writes. Muddying the waters is a time-tested subversive technique … but muddying your own waters?
January 24th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
According to masonic writer, A.E.Waite, Mazzini was in correspondence in 1870 with Pike not so much re-WW3 as re-the New Reformed Palladian Rite which Pike would lead. Pike had attended Harvard at the heart of the New England Illuminati scare. Like Margiotta he worked his way up through the Lodges and gravitated to Charleston. Situated on the 33rd Parallel the city was highly significant to Freemasonry being since 1801 HQ for the Supreme Council.
Unlike Carr, Waite cannot be accused of having an antisemitic agenda. Waite had taken issue in the Occult Review with the anti-masonic, antisemitic diatribes he found in Nesta Webster’s Morning Post articles in 1920. He had also debunked the more lurid smears levelled against the Palladian Rite by Diana Vaughan.
While Carr et al can be discredited for sloppy research for including the Taxil hoax material in their indictements of freemasonry does that necessitate wholesale jettisoning of Waite and Margiotta?
More importantly relying on masonic sources to refute Carr et al obscures the FACT that freemasonry had been subverted at its highest levels by political conspirators long before the Mazzini-Pike machinations from as far back as the seventeenth century. For these Accepted as opposed to Operative Freemasons the organization’s secret codes and international networking provided an excellent vehicle for initiating the permanent revolution and creative destruction that came to feature so prominently in modern history.
Rothschild Zionism achieved its objectives via Judaeo-Masonic subversion. When conspiracists ask who had the motive, the form, the means and who was in a position to benefit from events like the Young Turk Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution, WW1 and WW2 the answer in ALL cases is Rothschild Zionism.
Notwithstanding the Taxil hoax being recycled by later conspiracists like Carr et al-and note Taxil was seeking to discredit French anti-masons when he dreamed up the x3 World War hoax-there is abundant evidence of Illuminist and Rothschild Zionist infiltration of freemasonry to bring about the revolutions, depressions and wars on which Zionism would thrive.
January 24th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
“A.E.Waite, Mazzini was in correspondence in 1870″
Waite (on p. 253 of “New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry”; page 21 of “Devil Worship in France” as well) was summarizing the claims of the Palladium hoax material, the 1870 business, and the supposed contacts between Pike and Mazzini. He didn’t say that this was true. That is your assertion, not his. Waite was the first debunker of the tales. He also wrote a response after Taxil had confessed, that according to one historian has been published only recently.
As for Margiotta - yes, I discount his tall-tales. All of it. It is infected with lies at its core, so we have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. That’s what responsible people do when they are confronted with a deceiver. You can choose to undertake a real historical investigation, or you can choose to traffic and propagate confabulated assertions. You can’t do both. A Margiotta is impossible to deal with, as we are just supposed to take his word while he provides no means to verify any of it.
“Notwithstanding the Taxil hoax being recycled by later conspiracists like Carr et al-and note Taxil was seeking to discredit French anti-masons when he dreamed up the x3 World War hoax”
Taxil sought to discredit Catholics and Masons. And he did a fine job at it too. The WWW3 cruff is solely the fantasy of Carr. In the hoax material there isn’t anything about three world wars.
The point of my article is specific and explicitly a one-subject exercise: to get to the bottom of the alleged Pike/Mazzini 1871 “letter.”
What do you think? Because I have debunked a longstanding myth that all of a sudden it means that I believe there are no conspiracies? Masons conspire, Jews conspire, Fascists conspire, Communists conspire, secret service agents conspire, authors with agendas conspire. The human race is hardwired for it. And those with the gold call the shots.
January 24th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
The Taxil Hoax certainly does not gainsay the existence over centuries to the present day of Cabbalist conspirators with a Zionist ethno-supremacist agenda at the highest levels of freemasonry.
Like other masonic witnesses Waite detected the discarding of morals and Christianity that was encouraged in the highest degrees. The suspicions re-Satanism will continue for as long as Lurianic Cabbalah and the idea of Redemption Through Sin inspired by the Sabbatean Apostasy dominate the fringe freemasonry of such groups as B’nai B’rith and Grand Orient/Scottish Rite Lodges.
The question whether Pike and Mazzini were Satanists is muddying the waters and doesn’t detract from the central point that freemasonry was usurped by Rothschild Zionism for purposes of permanent revolution.
January 24th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
I know - you’re here to propagate your belief in an all-encompassing master Judeo-Kabbalistic Sabbatean conspiracy backed by Satan himself. It was obvious from the start. Original stuff. We should all be in chains by now. They must be the most inept bunch of hook-nosed plotters ever to walk the face of the earth.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
Satan doesn’t come into it as much as antinomianism which is in the case of Sabbateanism an inversion of Judaism. This is where people get the idea that Satanism is at work among freemasons.
Committee of Union and Progress ( Young Turks ) were largely Rothschild- sponsored Donmeh freemasons from Salonika.
Trotsky, Parvus and the Bolshevik “permanent revolution” crowd were of like provenance.
Hitler finance came from the same banker cartels that sponsored Bolshevism.
The original national socialism was espoused by Moses Hesse long before Hitler was conceived. It was a form of Jewish nationalism.
x2 World Wars=Israel
Not rocket science.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
I know quite a bit about Sabbateanism, Frankism and the Donmeh, and have read almost all the output of Gershom Scholem on these matters, including his 1000 page opus biography on Sabbatai Zevi (as well as what some antisemites have had to say). This antinomian strain has indeed been present for millenia, and it intersects, joins, and overlaps with Manicheanism and Gnosticism at various points in history. It is detected in paramasonic initatory groups such as the 18th century Asiatic Brethren and on down to the Golden Dawn and the OTO.
I do not believe, however, that this occult ideology is proof of a vast continuous conspiracy carried on throughout the ages, simply because its proselytes have traditionally been born Jewish. Rather, the fact that these beliefs existed before these people were born, when they came of age they naturally gravitated toward it.
A revolutionary is a revolutionary is a revolutionary. That some could have also been Jewish and/or secret followers of Sabbatai Zevi, is an interesting factoid at best. Other interesting things about revolutionaries is that they’ve come from all ethnic and socio-political persuasions along with real or imagined excuses for their conduct.
January 26th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Scholem corresponded with Hannah Arendt so I have always found it difficult to understand how Arendt never showed any awareness in her writing of Scholem’s work.
Scholem saw Sabbateanism as pivotal to the development of Zionism and the modern Jewish identity generally. Arendt must have been aware of this but she never breathed a word. In fact in The Origins of Totalitarianism she goes out of her way to absolve the Cabbalist bankers many conspiracists see as ultimately responsible for all the crimes against humanity committed during the wars and revolutions from the French Revolution on.
Other writers who put Sabbateanism centre stage are Marvin Antelman:
http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=5112
and Barry Chamish who is close to the settler movement in Israel. Chamish has written re-Sabbatai Tzvi:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12681484/Barry-Chamish-on-Frankists-Sabbateans-and-the-Illumiati
March 30th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
If you ever feel so inclined, it may be worthwhile to some day prove that Mazzini wasn’t even a Freemason.
From what I’ve been able to determine, his entry in “10,000 Famous Freemasons” was in error, quite possibly confusing Mazzini with Girabaldi…
March 31st, 2011 at 12:41 am
Frankly, I find it nearly impossible that he wasn’t. It may be worthwhile, then, to try and prove, once and for all, that he was. What’s one of the heads of the Carbonari doing not having been a Mason? (And I’m pretty sure they made it a requirement after you got to a certain level.) He would have been the most foolish revolutionary of his age. This is a time when Masonic lodges actually were utilized for coordinated action against corrupt states. Buonarroti had no qualms about doing it, and I doubt very much that Mazzini (the terrorist) was above such subterfuge.
January 12th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
What a great post! I wish all the conspiracy theorists were as rigorous as you.
March 9th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
Not an expert, but here’s some food for thought. Did Carr secretly disseminate the 3WW Pike/Manzini fraud so that it could be implemented by the freemasons one day. Just as “the Jews” in the Protocols of Zion were a cypher for the Thule Society.
May 1st, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Great research, my compliments! All sources needes are shown, step by step to the past, as we historians love it.
Only one thing, may be of some importance: As far as I understood the text of W.G. Carr 1958, he doesnt reclaim the topic with the 3 WW deriving from this “letter 1871″. He talks about Albert Pike, his background, his thinking and his alleged plan for 3 WW. To the end, the “letter 1871″-story is being told an the quote is given.
So it is not completly debunked - after all the only source for this 3 WW topic is W.G. Carr himself. Concerning WW 1 and 2 one may say, its not too strange, writing 1955 such “prophecies”. So it might be a fake oder a hoax. Concering WW 3 and the predicted conflict between Israel and the muslim world - things are a bit different. Wouldnt anybody have been predicting a possible 3 WW deriving from the USA - USSR - antagonism? And whats about the situation today (Iran-Israel) …..
August 29th, 2012 at 6:45 am
It seems that the conspiricy websites, populated by mainly by ‘progressives’ have only one real goal… let’s blame the jews, with a hin varnish of ‘the rothschilds’… Right the level is, as proven by the writer of the article, similar to tradiontional christian and muslims jewhatred in which all stories were held true to start a butchering of jews or modern socialist jewhatred as expressed by national socilists and communists.
They are also eager to disregard the fact that islam and christianity are in a territorial conflict ever since islam first threathened christian hegemony.
But then again, let blame it on the jews (he we need to do something to ease our coonsience and clraify our hatred).
October 26th, 2012 at 3:37 am
Thanks so much for doing this great research!
one love and God bless, xavier , belgium
May 8th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
In the Western world, Christianity is being replaced by occult practices in high places and some of these people retard and brain damage others deliberately if they dislike them by starving their brains of oxygen. Some of their victims can be university graduates and gifted people. It’s a terrible waste.