French Government Queries U.S. State Dept. about LSD Attack, Prompted by New Book Release
Prompted by a new book release, the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research has received a confidential inquiry from the office of Erard Corbin de Mangoux, head of the French intelligence agency, Directorate General for External Security (DGSE), concerning a recent account of American government complicity in a mysterious 1951 incident of mass insanity in France. The DGSE is the French counterpart of the CIA.
Washington, DC (Vocus) February 3, 2010 — Prompted by a new book release, the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research has received a confidential inquiry from the office of Erard Corbin de Mangoux, head of the French intelligence agency, Directorate General for External Security (DGSE), concerning a recent account of American government complicity in a mysterious 1951 incident of mass insanity in France. The DGSE is the French counterpart of the CIA.
The incident took place in the village of Pont-Saint-Esprit in southern France, and is described in a recent book about the 1953 death of an American biochemist, A Terrible Mistake: The Murder of Frank Olson and the CIA’s Secret Cold War Experiments (http://aterriblemistake.com/). The book, by investigative journalist H.P. Albarelli Jr. (http://www.albarelli.net/), was published in late November 2009 by TrineDay (http://trineday.com/), which specializes in books about “suppressed information.”
The strange outbreak severely affected nearly five hundred people, causing the deaths of at least five. For nearly 60 years the Pont-St.-Esprit incident has been attributed either to ergot poisoning, meaning that villagers consumed bread infected with a psychedelic mold, or to organic mercury poisoning. But Albarelli reports that the outbreak resulted from a covert LSD aerosol experiment directed by the US Army’s top-secret Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, Maryland. He notes that the scientists who produced both alternative explanations worked for the Sandoz Pharmaceutical Company, which was then secretly supplying both the Army and CIA with LSD.
The effect was devastating, as a contemporary French report made clear: “It is neither Shakespeare nor Edgar Poe. It is, alas, the sad reality all around Pont-St.-Esprit and its environs, where terrifying scenes of hallucinations are taking place. They are scenes straight out of the Middle Ages, scenes of horror and pathos, full of sinister shadows.” Even Time magazine took notice: “Among the stricken, delirium rose: patients thrashed wildly on their beds, screaming that red flowers were blossoming from their bodies, that their heads had turned to molten lead. Pont-Saint-Esprit’s hospital reported four attempts at suicide.”
A Department of Justice website on the dangers of LSD states that in the early 1950s “the Sandoz Chemical Company went as far as promoting LSD as a potential secret chemical warfare weapon to the U.S. Government. Their main selling point in this was that a small amount in a main water supply or sprayed in the air could disorient and turn psychotic an entire company of soldiers leaving them harmless and unable to fight.” The CIA entertained a number of proposals from American scientists concerning placing a large amount of LSD into the reservoir of a medium-to-large city, but, according to former agency officials, “the experiment was never approved due to the unexpected number of deaths during the operation in France.”
Albarelli also describes a series of small, secret chemical attacks by the CIA on the New York City subway system during the 1950s. Recently, the Army has referred to these experiments as “simulated tests,” but contemporary documents make no reference to simulation. An August 1950 FBI memorandum refers to “planned BW (biological warfare) experiments in the New York Subway System in September, 1950,” expressing concerns about “poisoning the water supply of a large metropolitan area at the source … the poisoning of food … sold to the general public.”
In its quest to research LSD as an offensive weapon, Albarelli claims, the Army drugged over 5,700 unwitting American servicemen between the years 1953 and 1965, and, with the CIA, experimented widely with LSD and other drugs through secret contracts with over 325 colleges, universities and research institutions in the U.S., Canada and Europe, involving about 2,500 additional subjects, many of them hospital patients and college students.
According to an official with the DGSE, who declined to be identified, “If the details of this book’s revelations prove to be true, it will be very upsetting for the people of Pont-St.-Esprit, as well as all French citizens. That agencies of the United States government would deliberately target innocent foreign citizens for such an experiment is a violation of a number of international laws and treaties.”
Contact:
Kent Goodman
(541) 954-8142 or (800) 556-2012
###
Tags: CIA Drugs, Frank Olson, MKULTRA
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Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism
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America's Secret Establishment: An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones
February 9th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
LSD as a practical weapon proved quite useful in the 1960’s during the Berkley Riots. Students prepared “laced” oranges which were offered by children to the occupying National Guardsmen. The news coverage of the riots showed truckloads of guardsmen being taken away. The Guardsmen being removed were laughing, smiling and having a wonderful time. They became useless as weapons of war. This must be why they made LSD illegal. None of the hysteria reported in the French incident was presented.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Our government would never hurt people or allow things like 9-11 to just happen would they?
You betcha they would and did and still do, wake up American Sheeple before they introduce Viral Laced Paper and Coin Money to do away with cash and bring in the Cashless Society of the end times spoken of in The BIBLE , and the 4 Horses of the Apocalypse shall bring forth the Death of Many People and of the death of our money!
February 9th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
I remember when in the late Sixties or early Seventies, reading an article in either Look magazine or the Saturday Evening Post about this incident. I think it was called The Town that Went Mad.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
A friend of mine was an Army medic in Vietnam, and used pot and LSD. He was tasked at one point with doing medical care for riot control units in California. This was under Governor Reagan. He said that the best substance for breaking up riots was the aerosolized MDA, which gave a euphoric high, and the rioters just dispersed within 20 minutes or so. The riot police and medics dispersed, too. What the government did was to bring in the medics and personnel who were experienced drug users, and they were able to stay on task.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
No, it’s not possible, the squeaky clean purveyor of democracy and human rights, the unerring US, deposer of monsters, with a long record of championing the rights of the poor, and bringing fair trade practices to everyone, violating international laws and treaties!!! It’s not possible!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:06 am
Pure LSD (who knows what poisonous combo the CIA was actually using?) has different effects on different people,anything from mystical to terrifying! LSD can drive people with a mild emotional problem into a full blown psychosis and/or suicide.The US Govt through its CIA “NAZIS” carried out a long series of experiments in Canada in the 1950’s and 60’s,most notably at the Clarke Institute in Toronto where unwitting psychiatriac patients were given LSD and (ECT) Shock Treatments.Some patients recieved many hundreds of Shock Treatments as the CIA was trying to come up with a way to completely wipe out a person’s memory.They wanted this “mind wipe” to use on foreign enemies plus also on their own and on any US Govt operatives who were suspected of being compromised or deemed untrustworthy! There are many more CIA instigated “Atrocities” around the world that may never ever get reported!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:17 am
The American sheeple are getting their daily doseges in a (good for you) poison called fluoride. They don’t call ‘em sheeple for nothin’.
Baaaa!
http://www.theamericansheeple.com
February 10th, 2010 at 3:08 am
The mass-poisoning whose symptoms began on August 16, 1951 in Pont-Saint-Esprit, France most definitely wasn’t caused by LSD, let alone anything that was sprayed through the air.
The poisoning was traced back to bread made by local baker Roch Briand. It didn’t affect people in the area generally, but only those who had eaten the contaminated bread. So H. P. Albarelli, Jr.’s claim that the poisoning was due to “a covert LSD aerosol experiment directed by the US Army’s top-secret Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, Maryland” can be definitely ruled out.
Further, the symptoms of poisoning weren’t those of LSD’s effects. People don’t die from even massive overdoses of LSD, unlike a number of people who died of convulsions from the mass-poisoning in Pont-Saint-Esprit. There has never been a unambiguous recorded human death from LSD overdose. The therapeutic index for LSD is among the highest known for any pharmacologically active substance. Physiologically speaking, it’s extremely safe. There would be no way to deliver a lethal dose of LSD via mass aerosol spraying.
The hallucinations reported in the Pont-Saint-Esprit case also don’t match the effects of LSD. Victims reported being eaten by snakes, their heart escaping from their feet, and similar very vivid and lifelike hallucinations. The imagery produced by even massive-dose LSD is either more abstract or more internal. Nor do we have any reports from the Pont-Saint-Esprit victims that match the visual effects which are common to all LSD experiences strong enough to produce visual effects, such as the visual trails (sometimes called tracers), objects undulating in rolling wave motions (some people refer to this as “breathing”), etc.
Additionally, the most severe symptoms of the mass-poisoning lasted for days, with many of the survivors left permanently debilitated. Even a huge dose of LSD isn’t going to last over 24 hours, with 8 hours being typical for a large dose.
Regarding Sandoz, Albarelli’s statement that “A Department of Justice website on the dangers of LSD states that in the early 1950s ‘the Sandoz Chemical Company went as far as promoting LSD as a potential secret chemical warfare weapon to the U.S. Government. Their main selling point in this was that a small amount in a main water supply or sprayed in the air could disorient and turn psychotic an entire company of soldiers leaving them harmless and unable to fight.’” is incorrect. That statement never appeared on said U.S. government website. Rather, that statement appears to come from a blog post by a one Catton, “Adolescent Hallucinogen Use Drops Considerably,” Qondio United States, July 9, 2008; Albarelli apparently got confused as to what Catton was quoting from the publication LSD in the United States, Section: “LSD: The Drug” (U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration) and what Catton himself was saying. Nor did Catton provide any citation or explanation for his statement.
In 1953 the CIA approached Sandoz in order to purchase 10 kilograms of LSD (which is 100 million doses of LSD at 100 micrograms a dose). Sandoz informed the CIA that up to that time only 40 grams of LSD had ever been made, due to the difficulty of producing the precursors from ergot, and so it would be unable to fulfill the CIA’s request. The CIA then turned to Eli Lilly and Company to produce LSD, and thereby the U.S. government along with Eli Lilly and Company became the first illegal manufacturers of LSD (due to violations of patents) before LSD was even made illegal!
Concerning U.S. Army scientist Frank Olsen, he was indeed murdered by the U.S. government. He did not commit suicide in any form. For more information on that, see the Frank Olson Legacy Project website.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:26 am
“Regarding Sandoz, Albarelli’s statement”
I’m not sure that it’s Albarelli’s statement. Rather, the press release was most likely written up and dispatched by Trine Day.
“The imagery produced by even massive-dose LSD is either more abstract or more internal.”
No necessarily. Back in the day, there was some really potent Orange Sunshine going around. Needless to say, the hallucinations that some experienced (with only two or three tabs) were intense, sometimes frightening, and as real as it comes. There was nothing abstract or internal about it. I could only imagine if someone were to have taken it unaware - insanity and/or suicide might ultimately have resulted.
Not sure about the deaths in the France case. Perhaps they committed suicide? You’re right though, people don’t just die from overdosing on acid. I know a guy who took an entire hundred-lot of double-barrel Strawberry microdot (to avoid getting caught with it), and he lived through it.
Check out this article at Rense. Engdahl interviewed Albarelli, who gave a bit more details. I have the book here. I’ll look through it to see if any of the cited documents are included at the back.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:10 am
James… The article says they committed suicide, not that they were killed. As for the duration of the trip, the chemical might have hung around in the atmosphere for a couple of days. Also, there are MANY different synthetic hallucinogens out there,i.e., AMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 2CB, et al. An AMT trip last about 16-20 hours. I wouldn’t be so quick to disregard ANY claims of nefarious activity by these infiltrated/tyrannical governments.
HOW DO WE STOP THESE GENOCIDAL GOVERNMENTS FROM ENSLAVING AND/OR KILLING US?
The SOULution is simple: SHARE THE WORD OF TRUTH! Tell everyone about the threat of this “new world order” corporate beast! You can make DVD copies of informative documentaries and print up flyers to hand out or leave in public places where people will see them. Start up a group to deal with local and global problems. Confront the corrupt tyrants in your area.
It’s not enough to just know what’s going on… DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
Once we reach a critical mass of wellinformed and motivated indivuals, we can begin to take the necessary steps to prosecute the traitors and bring TRUE Peace, Liberty and Justice for ALL Humanity!!!…
!!!DTTNWO!!!
February 10th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
James Redford has no clue or idea what he is writing about. His mistakes and erroneous info is too
silly to even respond to… The story he presents about Sandoz is only partially true… his info about LSD and death is simply wrong… the bread theory has been ruled out by experts for decades… one can’t gather their facts and info from the Internet solely and expect to know much of anything. It helps to really dig into a subject before you write things that are completely wrong. How does one not commit suicide “in any form”? No way to deliver a ‘lethal does”– no not a lethal dose but an amount that infected many people. The Army and CIA has had this means for decades.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
I agree with Mr. Redford etc… LSD has incredibly low toxicity, and the chances of anyone dying from such a scenario are very slim. As for halucinations, they can be wild and surreal or extremely realistic, you never know..
I would suspect that even animals would be effected in an airborn aerisol attack with LSD, and no mention is made of that..It is highly unlikely that LSD only works on humans as it operates by simply raising the levels of a neurotransmitter common to all living things..
The details of this report does sound suspect although I have no doubt the US wouldn’t hesitate to do such a thing.. Just read a new piece at http://www.conspireality.tv about US false flag operations..
February 10th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Very interesting. According this article from 2008:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/arts/24iht-blume.1.14718462.htm
The reason for the incident has never been determined, at least officially. Ergot poisoning and mercury treated seeds have both been ruled out (though the article suggests that bleaching agents for the flour may have been a possible culprit).
Having had, ahem, extensive experience with LSD usage and users myself, none of this sounds like LSD to me. However, if it was a government experiment, there is no way to know what other chemicals or agents may have been involved (it may have been “weaponized” LSD, with additional agents added to make to more deadly and debilitating). In any case, I certainly wouldn’t put it past the US government.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
three points re: James Redford’s comments:
1) he states “The poisoning was traced back to bread made by local baker Roch Briand” but that may well be the cover story, 2) he states that the hallucinations described do not match LSD experiences, but in fact these are highly variable and are different in a person who knows nothing of psychedelics than in a person who trips for recreation, 3) he states that 8 hours is a typical duration whereas I have never had LSD wear off in less than 12, and the effects on vulnerable minds can indeed be long lasting, if not permanent. So these objections, in my view, don’t add up.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
…Very interesting point made by John Day about using aerosolized MDA to pacify rioters. I’m from the U.K. and in the mid 1980’s there was serious football hooliganism, so serious that after the Heysel Stadium disaster, English football clubs were banned from European cup competitions. Towards the end of the 80’s however the rioting had ceased, and many commentators at the time said it was due to the introduction of …Acid House music. Many young people would follow the acid house parties that were staged in various fields and warehouses throughout the country and as well as using acid, a hither unknown drug was being used as well, which was highly recommended as being well suited to the pulsating rhythms of the electronic music being produced by Roland’s TB303 bassline and 909 drum machine - Ecstasy or MDMA!
February 10th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
Sorry for the delay in comments guys. New people who comment automatically go into moderation queue and I wasn’t around to approve them.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
James can’t say “most definitely,” because LSD on a person susceptible to epilepsy wouldn’t be safe. And the whole village doesn’t eat from one bakery. The Army was using people as guinea pigs, and it won’t admit that, any more than admit any other mass crime.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Hannibal, your right, Ecstasy did kill football violence. Not only because of the pound note to be made, but it made one feel all soft and loved up, i know, im ex ICF under 5s.
Have any of you seen ‘A Bad Trip to EdgeWood’ ? its a very interesting documentry about US army experimenting on their own souldiers with LSD.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Apparently dogs and cats suffered as well.
I’ve been looking over parts of this episode in Albarelli’s book and it is well researched and written, and goes into detail on all sorts of things - like the involvement of Sandoz LSD scientists in the investigation, and the fact that army personnel were seen in the vicinity before the mysterious illness. Also the people who died - three of them were elderly and the cause of death (though still unknown) seems to be related to convulsions.
I can’t wait to properly read it from start to finish. Mr. Albarelli, you have quite a gem here. Congratulations!
February 11th, 2010 at 3:44 am
LSD can definitely last longer than 8 hours. WAY longer. And the hallucinations do sound like LSD..
But there are other organic poisons that have extreme halucinations as a by product.
AGain, it would be more persuasive if there were reports of animals acting strange also..
February 11th, 2010 at 3:53 am
Ducks, cats and dogs were known to be affected.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Thank you for your most kind comments, Terry. Nobody is the least bit happy to report accounts
like what happened at Pont St. Esprit in 1951. It’s sad and discouraging that our government, or agents of
our government, committed such an act. But that it happened, as described in my book, is beyond
doubt. What people should be most concerned about today is that such acts are still happening– that is something we should not accept and that we should all try to counter.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Great interview on Red Ice too, by the way.
February 11th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
What’s really sad about all these evil intelligence operations carried out by America is that they give ammunition to the Communists and other despotic regimes when they accuse the Western Democracies of being evil. Many people will read these atrocities as a sign that Communism is a viable alternative and turn against the good ideals that America is supposed to represent, ideals which these corrupt government agents in no way exhibit. Sad really.
February 12th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Well, at least in a free society these things eventually see the light of day.
March 12th, 2010 at 5:57 am
Hi, H.P. Albarelli Jr. You wrote:
“”
James Redford has no clue or idea what he is writing about. His mistakes and erroneous info is too
silly to even respond to… The story he presents about Sandoz is only partially true… his info about LSD and death is simply wrong… the bread theory has been ruled out by experts for decades… one can’t gather their facts and info from the Internet solely and expect to know much of anything. It helps to really dig into a subject before you write things that are completely wrong. How does one not commit suicide “in any form”? No way to deliver a ‘lethal does”– no not a lethal dose but an amount that infected many people. The Army and CIA has had this means for decades.
“”
Actually, I’m very learned when it comes to the pharmacology and chemistry of LSD, and I’ve written on the Pont-Saint-Esprit incident long before your book came out.
The mass-poisoning whose symptoms began circa August 16, 1951 in Pont-Saint-Esprit, France most definitely wasn’t caused by LSD, let alone anything that was sprayed through the air.
The poisoning was traced back to bread made by local baker Roch Briand. It didn’t affect people in the area generally, but only those who had eaten the contaminated bread. So your claim that the poisoning was due to “a covert LSD aerosol experiment directed by the US Army’s top-secret Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, Maryland” can be definitely ruled out.
Further, the symptoms of poisoning were incompatible with those of LSD’s effects. Symptoms began 6 to 48 hours after eating the contaminated bread. Whereas if it had been LSD, effects would have started to occur at about an hour for normal doses and sooner for massive doses (and sooner still for insufflation via aerosol spraying). Secondly, people don’t die from even massive overdoses of LSD, unlike a number of people who died of convulsions from the mass-poisoning in Pont-Saint-Esprit. There has never been a unambiguous recorded human death from LSD overdose. The therapeutic index for LSD is among the highest known for any pharmacologically active substance. Physiologically speaking, it’s extremely safe. There would be no way to deliver a lethal dose of LSD via mass aerosol spraying.
For a description of the symptoms of the Pont-Saint-Esprit victims by the physicians who treated them, see Gabbai, Lisbonne and Pourquier, “Ergot Poisoning at Pont St. Esprit,” British Medical Journal, Vol. 2, No. 4732, pp. 650-651. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2069953/
Regarding Sandoz, your statement that “A Department of Justice website on the dangers of LSD states that in the early 1950s ‘the Sandoz Chemical Company went as far as promoting LSD as a potential secret chemical warfare weapon to the U.S. Government. Their main selling point in this was that a small amount in a main water supply or sprayed in the air could disorient and turn psychotic an entire company of soldiers leaving them harmless and unable to fight.’” is incorrect. That statement never appeared on said U.S. government website. Rather, that statement appears to come from a blog post by a one Catton, “Adolescent Hallucinogen Use Drops Considerably,” Qondio United States, July 9, 2008; you apparently got confused as to what Catton was quoting from the publication LSD in the United States, Section: “LSD: The Drug” (U.S. Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration) and what Catton himself was saying. Nor did Catton provide any citation or explanation for his statement.
I don’t know who you you think you’re quoting when you write “How does one not commit suicide ‘in any form’?” I didn’t even write the phrase “in any form” in my previous post above, so you’re not quoting me. A number of people died of convulsions in the Pont-Saint-Esprit mass-poisoning. As I said, there has never been a unambiguous recorded human death from LSD overdose. The therapeutic index for LSD is among the highest known for any pharmacologically active substance. Physiologically speaking, it’s extremely safe. There would be no way to deliver a lethal dose of LSD via mass aerosol spraying.
March 12th, 2010 at 7:53 am
Hi, H.P. Albarelli Jr. Regarding your question “How does one not commit suicide ‘in any form’?” What I wrote is that U.S. Army scientist Frank Olson “was indeed murdered by the U.S. government. He did not commit suicide in any form.” Obviously I wasn’t referring here to the Pont-Saint-Esprit mass-poisoning victims.
March 12th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Mr Apperelli is a fool trying to sell a poorly researched, biased, and paranoid hypothesis he calls a book.
He has obviously never tried LSD. He is obviously not familiar with the actual effects of the drug.
A much more likely culprit for such intense hallucinations, convulsions, and death would be a deliriant containing atropine, like Belladonna or jimson weed.
I know people who have tried these things, and while they love the LSD experience, they strongly recommend avoiding belladonna and jimson weed.
There are plenty of films that show the effects of LSD administered secretly to troops. They mostly just laugh their asses off. A few have very dark emotional experiences, most likely when they come to the full realization that they’re in the business of war.
It could have also been mercury or ergot poisoning, but an aerosol of LSD? Get real.
Oh, by the way, one of the reasons there’s fluoride in municipal water supplies is that it will oxidize drugs like LSD and destroy it. So does chlorine.
Sometimes black market LSD is distributed as “gel tabs”. This is a method of titration that involves mixing LSD with gelatin and smearing it on a light diffusing panel to make tiny dried gelatin squares containing the drug. If one uses tap water when mixing the gelatin, the “gel tabs” become very weak or even
completely inert.
So, all of your conspiracy theories about both LSD and fluoride in the water supply are bunk.
Keep in mind, people, that sensationalists like Art Bell, Alex Jones, and Mr Alberelli have a vested interest in keeping you frightened and misinformed. Just like the government.
March 12th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
You are ignorant of the scope and professionalism of his book, Johnny. It is not just a book per say, more like a magnum opus of research. Give it a chance before jumping to conclusions. Truly these press reports that concentrate on the France incident does not do it justice. There are 800+ pages of investigative reporting utilizing the governments own damning documents. Anyone who even cracks open the cover would not and could not, in good conscience, characterize Albarelli and his book in the manner that you have. Shame.
June 13th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Well this is just fascinating. As much as I know the controllers of our nation and their gangs of bullies are nefarious self serving A Holes….
I have to go with Mr. Redford and Johnny here. I am glad they took the time and effort to share their perceptions of what was, and is happening with the LSD conspiracy possibilities and story.I am glad I came across the article, it has been entertaining and educational. I appreciate the way Redford and Johnny squashed the flow of nutty conspiracy stories.These sensationalists are why evil entities get away with bad goings on in the first place, it’s ‘the boy who cried wolf’ syndrome.It’s when the self educated really stand out from the blabbers…
December 29th, 2010 at 12:38 am
Redford and Johnny are right. The French doctor’s report was written within 15 days and showed thorough examinations. The symptoms were only like LSD’s in the vaguest sense (kind of like suggesting that red and purple are the same, since they’re both colors), and hallucinations only happened long after the initial symptoms, much longer than would have happened with LSD.
Redford linked to the report. Here it is again, it might be a good idea to read it if anyone hasn’t: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2069953/?page=1
As for Albarelli’s statement that someone overheard a Sandoz salesman say that the incident in France was not ergot poisoning …… well the salesman had been drinking and maybe was trying to press home the potency of the product being sold, or maybe he’d overheard some rumors in the employee lounge. It’s just too thin a piece of evidence to put much weight on it.
It’s true that the FBI and CIA are sociopathic scum who didn’t and don’t hesitate to illegally experiment on US citizens, but I don’t think we can hang this one on them.